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  #1  
Old 03-16-2012, 12:28 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2
Default Timing belt 300m 1999 hydraulic tensioner vs. tensioner pulley.

Hello,
Can Kevin or other veterans please comment. I'm looking to get the timing belt service done on my car.

1) What brand of timing belt is the most reliable. I've seen belts from $30 on rockauto, $50 in Advance to $100 at the dealer.

2) Should I change the water pump? What brand?

3) How many pulleys behind the timing cover?

4) Is there a reason to change the "hydraulic" tensioner-- about $90!

5) Whats the difference between hydraulic tensioner and tensioner pulley? do I need both?

6) what pulleys + belts outside the timing cover should I be looking to change?


Thank you all very much!
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  #2  
Old 03-25-2012, 09:11 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 29
Default

I rarely come here to this web-forum. You might have more luck posting to the usenet newsgroup rec.autos.makers.chrysler. I posted the following there a couple years ago:

==============

So I had major service done to my year 2000 300m. I'll post price details later, but for now I just want to comment on the timing belt and water pump.

The original belt has the following markings on it that are clearly visible:

4792353
Do Not Crimp
98+ MY 3.2/3.5L
Chrysler Pentastar Logo
Gates Logo

The flat surface has some wear or scuffing (nowhere near enough to wipe out the above printed markings, which were in printed in orange color).

The ribbed or tooth surface looks brand new. No micro cracks, no frayed edges. Maybe I'll take a picture and post it. This is a 10 year old belt, with 90k miles on it. And I was worried I was living on borrowed time with it. Sheesh. It probably could have easily lasted another 5 years and 50k miles.

The original water pump has has the following cast into it:

4663333AB
Chrysler Pentastar Logo

The impeller is black, and seems to be plastic. The shaft turns freely, but absolutely no play is detectable by hand

This was not the part number that I've been quoted previously, but it does seem to be a legit number according to this:

Water Pump Warehouse Messages

What I was told when shopping for parts was that the water pump P/N was 4792195, which supercedes to 4792195AB which supercedes to V9900085.

Here are more Chrysler water pumps:

Results for Chrysler

So my original pump was replaced with this:

Dynapak
Fenco
NP1664
"New Water Pump" printed on the box

So I'll hang onto the belt and pump in case I need them in the future.

===========

This is what I'm looking at:

- replace timing belt
- replace timing belt pulley
- replace front main oil seal
- replace water pump
- replace upper and lower rad hoses
- change transmission oil and filter
- change differential oil
- change power steering fluid
- change engine coolant (but not doing "flush")

The bill for that is coming in at $1,700. The timing belt is $220, the pulley is $120, water pump is a little over $100, and labor is $300 - $400. Changing the oils/fluids for the differential, PS and trans is about $170 *each*. The rad hoses are probably pushing $100 each. With tax, this is going to be pushing $2k.

That's why I'm not too keen on a flush and t-stat for an extra $300.

The serpentine belt and it's pulley was changed 3 years ago, and the differential amd PS fluid has been changed only once so far. I'm not sure if the tranny fluid has ever been changed. Coolant is still original.

If you add all that up, including the spark plugs (which I changed a couple years ago), it comes to about 2,500-$2,700 for 10 years worth of ownership and use. Include the brake / rotor service I've done myself, the front sway bar bushings and end-links, and I'm probably looking at $3k total maintainence cost.

==============

After contacting 6 local dealerships and 4 aftermarket parts stores:

Timing Belt Hydraulic tensioner (have been told that Chrysler also calls this a "damper". P/N 4573347. Standard Canadian Dealer price = $186. Have been quoted as high as $208. Presumably this is the "original" factory part. Today it superceded to P/N 4892109AA which MUST be paired with pulley P/N 4663515AD. Original pulley P/N is 4663515.

If I read this right, then if original pulley is not available, then if the newer pulley is used then the newer tensioner must also be used - regardless of the condition of the original tensioner.

Standard Canadian dealer price for original pulley is $98 (have been quoted as high as $118). Standard price for newer tensioner is $184 (highest = $206). Standard price for newer pulley is $69 (highest = $84).

Original pulley is practically non-existant locally and (so I'm told) in the US. Original tensioner is still available. Newer pulley must come from the US (none in Ontario).

Three to four out of 6 local dealerships quote the "standard" price for all items. One out of six consistently quote 10 to 30% higher.

Standard price for timing belt (P/N 4792353) is $220 (highest = $275).

Water pump original P/N was 4792195 ($120), which superceeded to 4792195AB ($148) which now superceeds to value-line P/N V9900085 ($133). 4792195AB (if I really want it) must come from the US (none in Ontario).

Front main seal (P/N 4792317AB) is quoted at $12.

Aftermarket part stores:

No parts stores sell the tensioner at all, and one or two have pulley but sometimes it's identified as a "timing component kit", and sometimes it is available as part of a kit with a timing belt (sometimes known as a belt and "roller" kit). Examples:

Dayco 84086 Pulley ($70 - $85)

Goodyear P/N GTK0255 ($85 - $130 belt + pulley)
Goodyear P/N 40295 ($173 belt only)
Dayco P/N 95295 ($180 - $216 belt only)
Gates TCK-295 ($290 Belt with pulley)
Gates TCK-295P ($317 Belt with pulley - and seals?)
Contitec TV295 ($152 belt only)
AC Delco or Dynagear ($152 belt only)

The P/N for the belt will usually have a "295" regardless who makes it because that's the number of teeth.

The Chrysler issue with the different versions of the tensioner and pulley combination are not indicated or are not present with the aftermarket pulleys (so it seems).

Aftermarket water pump comes in two flavors - remanufactured and new.

Fenco (Prestone?) ($80 - $124) new pump (NP1664)
AC Delco ($140) new pump (P/N 252-692)
Cardone ($85 + $15 core)
Prestone ($110) new pump (same as Fenco?)
ASC Industries ($124) new
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  #3  
Old 03-27-2012, 08:44 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 29
Default

I posted a comprehensive answer to your question, but it apparently wasn't accepted by the moderator here.

Post your question to the usenet newsgroup rec.autos.makers.chrysler. You'll get more answers there than you will here on this forum (that goes for everyone reading this).
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  #4  
Old 03-27-2012, 08:48 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 29
Default

When dealing with the timing belt tensioner, you're going to come across
these terms:

- tensioner
- pulley
- hydraulic tensioner
- Timing Belt Hydraulic tensioner
- damper
- timing component kit / roller kit

Some of these terms are just different names for the same thing (ie
damper might just be another name for tensioner).

The tensioner might be 2 or 3 different parts (arm, hydraulic part,
pulley) and when you start having some parts guy looking it up, you're
going to find that the original part number is superceded to another
number, which is superceded to another number, etc.

Even with my car (6 years newer than yours) I had that issue about
needing a new idler arm to go with a matching pulley or some such
nonsense because the original pulley was no longer available.

If you go with non-MoPar parts, I think most timing belts come in the
form of a kit (belt + pulley / tensioner) as well as belt alone.

When it comes to the water pump, again you're going to find that the
original P/N is superceded to a newer P/N etc etc and then discontinued,
so the ultimate replacement is aftermarket brand.

Also, you should have the front-main seal replaced because it's right
there and easy to do. It should be cheap ($12) and cost practically no
additional labor cost.
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  #5  
Old 03-27-2012, 09:05 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 29
Default

I posted this material in rec.autos.makers.chrysler back in October 2009. This was for my year-2000 300m when it was at about 90k miles and I was looking into getting the timing belt replaced.

I replaced other components (like some gaskets and water pump) because there's no additional labor costs to replace them when you're doing the timing belt replacement). I was having no engine problems at this time (no problems with gaskets or water pump). This was just preventative maintenance on the timing belt and all other listed components.

As of right now (2.5 years and 15k miles after this work was done) the engine still runs perfectly.

I asked for the original timing belt and water pump when they took them out to replace them with new components. The original belt had the following markings on it that are clearly visible:

4792353
Do Not Crimp
98+ MY 3.2/3.5L
Chrysler Pentastar Logo
Gates Logo

The flat surface has some wear or scuffing (nowhere near enough to wipe out the above printed markings, which were in printed in orange color).

The ribbed or tooth surface looked brand new. No micro cracks, no frayed edges. This is a 10 year old belt, with 90k miles on it. And I was worried I was living on borrowed time with it. Sheesh. It probably could have easily lasted another 5 years and 50k miles.

The original water pump has has the following cast into it:

4663333AB
Chrysler Pentastar Logo

The impeller is black, and seems to be plastic. The shaft turns freely, but absolutely no play was detectable by hand.

-----------------------

After contacting 6 local dealerships and 4 aftermarket parts stores:

Timing Belt Hydraulic tensioner (have been told that Chrysler also calls this a "damper". P/N 4573347. Standard Canadian Dealer price = $186. Have been quoted as high as $208. Presumably this is the "original" factory part. Today it superceded to P/N 4892109AA which MUST be paired with pulley P/N 4663515AD. Original pulley P/N is 4663515.

If I read this right, then if original pulley is not available, then if the newer pulley is used then the newer tensioner must also be used - regardless of the condition of the original tensioner.

Standard Canadian dealer price for original pulley is $98 (have been quoted as high as $118). Standard price for newer tensioner is $184 (highest = $206). Standard price for newer pulley is $69 (highest = $84).

Original pulley is practically non-existant locally and (so I'm told) in the US. Original tensioner is still available. Newer pulley must come from the US (none in Ontario).

Three to four out of 6 local dealerships quote the "standard" price for all items. One out of six consistently quote 10 to 30% higher.

Standard price for timing belt (P/N 4792353) is $220 (highest = $275).

Water pump original P/N was 4792195 ($120), which superceeded to 4792195AB ($148) which now superceeds to value-line P/N V9900085
($133). 4792195AB (if I really want it) must come from the US (none in Ontario).

Front main seal (P/N 4792317AB) is quoted at $12.

Aftermarket part stores:

No parts stores sell the tensioner at all, and one or two have pulley but sometimes it's identified as a "timing component kit", and sometimes it is available as part of a kit with a timing belt (sometimes known as a belt and "roller" kit). Examples:

Dayco 84086 Pulley ($70 - $85)

Goodyear P/N GTK0255 ($85 - $130 belt + pulley)
Goodyear P/N 40295 ($173 belt only)
Dayco P/N 95295 ($180 - $216 belt only)
Gates TCK-295 ($290 Belt with pulley)
Gates TCK-295P ($317 Belt with pulley - and seals?)
Contitec TV295 ($152 belt only)
AC Delco or Dynagear ($152 belt only)

The P/N for the belt will usually have a "295" regardless who makes it because that's the number of teeth.

The Chrysler issue with the different versions of the tensioner and pulley combination are not indicated or are not present with the aftermarket pulleys (so it seems).

Aftermarket water pump comes in two flavors - remanufactured and new.

Fenco (Prestone?) ($80 - $124) new pump (NP1664)
AC Delco ($140) new pump (P/N 252-692)
Cardone ($85 + $15 core)
Prestone ($110) new pump (same as Fenco?)
ASC Industries ($124) new

This is what I'm looking at:

- replace timing belt
- replace timing belt pulley
- replace front main oil seal
- replace water pump
- replace upper and lower rad hoses
- change transmission oil and filter
- change differential oil
- change power steering fluid
- change engine coolant (but not doing "flush")

The bill for that is coming in at $1,700. The timing belt is $220, the pulley is $120, water pump is a little over $100, and labor is $300 - $400. Changing the oils/fluids for the differential, PS and trans is about $170 *each*. The rad hoses are probably pushing $100 each. With tax, this is going to be pushing $2k.
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  #6  
Old 03-27-2012, 10:43 AM
CHRYSLER TECH's Avatar
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Location: Norcross GA
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Default

contrary to what you think moparman Some people that assist on this forum do have life outside this situation. I run my own business and have a family they come first.
No one moderated anything u posted either so I dont know where that came from.
Replace the belt dayco or gates which ever u want replace the pulley which is the arm that the tensioner places pressure on when tight.
Replace the water pump while u are in there to.
__________________
Dealer trained Tech 15 years Now Proud Owner operator Kevin's Mobile Repair in ATLANTA. Repairing Chrysler,Dodge and Jeep
KKeller608@aol.com
http://kevinsmobilerepair.com
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  #7  
Old 03-29-2012, 07:00 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 29
Default

I posted this material in rec.autos.makers.chrysler back in October 2009. This was for my year-2000 300m when it was at about 90k miles and I was looking into getting the timing belt replaced.

I replaced other components (like some gaskets and water pump) because there's no additional labor costs to replace them when you're doing the timing belt replacement). I was having no engine problems at this time (no problems with gaskets or water pump). This was just preventative maintenance on the timing belt and all other listed components.

As of right now (2.5 years and 15k miles after this work was done) the engine still runs perfectly.

I asked for the original timing belt and water pump when they took them out to replace them with new components. The original belt had the following markings on it that are clearly visible:

4792353
Do Not Crimp
98+ MY 3.2/3.5L
Chrysler Pentastar Logo
Gates Logo

The flat surface has some wear or scuffing (nowhere near enough to wipe out the above printed markings, which were in printed in orange color).

The ribbed or tooth surface looked brand new. No micro cracks, no frayed edges. This is a 10 year old belt, with 90k miles on it. And I was worried I was living on borrowed time with it. Sheesh. It probably could have easily lasted another 5 years and 50k miles.

The original water pump has has the following cast into it:

4663333AB
Chrysler Pentastar Logo

The impeller is black, and seems to be plastic. The shaft turns freely, but absolutely no play was detectable by hand.

-----------------------

After contacting 6 local dealerships and 4 aftermarket parts stores:

Timing Belt Hydraulic tensioner (have been told that Chrysler also calls this a "damper". P/N 4573347. Standard Canadian Dealer price = $186. Have been quoted as high as $208. Presumably this is the "original" factory part. Today it superceded to P/N 4892109AA which MUST be paired with pulley P/N 4663515AD. Original pulley P/N is 4663515.

If I read this right, then if original pulley is not available, then if the newer pulley is used then the newer tensioner must also be used - regardless of the condition of the original tensioner.

Standard Canadian dealer price for original pulley is $98 (have been quoted as high as $118). Standard price for newer tensioner is $184 (highest = $206). Standard price for newer pulley is $69 (highest = $84).

Original pulley is practically non-existant locally and (so I'm told) in the US. Original tensioner is still available. Newer pulley must come from the US (none in Ontario).

Three to four out of 6 local dealerships quote the "standard" price for all items. One out of six consistently quote 10 to 30% higher.

Standard price for timing belt (P/N 4792353) is $220 (highest = $275).

Water pump original P/N was 4792195 ($120), which superceeded to 4792195AB ($148) which now superceeds to value-line P/N V9900085
($133). 4792195AB (if I really want it) must come from the US (none in Ontario).

Front main seal (P/N 4792317AB) is quoted at $12.

Aftermarket part stores:

No parts stores sell the tensioner at all, and one or two have pulley but sometimes it's identified as a "timing component kit", and sometimes it is available as part of a kit with a timing belt (sometimes known as a belt and "roller" kit). Examples:

Dayco 84086 Pulley ($70 - $85)

Goodyear P/N GTK0255 ($85 - $130 belt + pulley)
Goodyear P/N 40295 ($173 belt only)
Dayco P/N 95295 ($180 - $216 belt only)
Gates TCK-295 ($290 Belt with pulley)
Gates TCK-295P ($317 Belt with pulley - and seals?)
Contitec TV295 ($152 belt only)
AC Delco or Dynagear ($152 belt only)

The P/N for the belt will usually have a "295" regardless who makes it because that's the number of teeth.

The Chrysler issue with the different versions of the tensioner and pulley combination are not indicated or are not present with the aftermarket pulleys (so it seems).

Aftermarket water pump comes in two flavors - remanufactured and new.

Fenco (Prestone?) ($80 - $124) new pump (NP1664)
AC Delco ($140) new pump (P/N 252-692)
Cardone ($85 + $15 core)
Prestone ($110) new pump (same as Fenco?)
ASC Industries ($124) new

This is what I'm looking at:

- replace timing belt
- replace timing belt pulley
- replace front main oil seal
- replace water pump
- replace upper and lower rad hoses
- change transmission oil and filter
- change differential oil
- change power steering fluid
- change engine coolant (but not doing "flush")

The bill for that is coming in at $1,700. The timing belt is $220, the pulley is $120, water pump is a little over $100, and labor is $300 - $400. Changing the oils/fluids for the differential, PS and trans is about $170 *each*. The rad hoses are probably pushing $100 each. With tax, this is going to be pushing $2k.
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  #8  
Old 03-29-2012, 07:02 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 29
Default

I posted this material in rec.autos.makers.chrysler back in October 2009. This was for my year-2000 300m when it was at about 90k miles and I was looking into getting the timing belt replaced.

I replaced other components (like some gaskets and water pump) because there's no additional labor costs to replace them when you're doing the timing belt replacement). I was having no engine problems at this time (no problems with gaskets or water pump). This was just preventative maintenance on the timing belt and all other listed components.

As of right now (2.5 years and 15k miles after this work was done) the engine still runs perfectly.

I asked for the original timing belt and water pump when they took them out to replace them with new components. The original belt had the following markings on it that are clearly visible:

4792353
Do Not Crimp
98+ MY 3.2/3.5L
Chrysler Pentastar Logo
Gates Logo

The flat surface has some wear or scuffing (nowhere near enough to wipe out the above printed markings, which were in printed in orange color).

The ribbed or tooth surface looked brand new. No micro cracks, no frayed edges. This is a 10 year old belt, with 90k miles on it. And I was worried I was living on borrowed time with it. Sheesh. It probably could have easily lasted another 5 years and 50k miles.

The original water pump has has the following cast into it:

4663333AB
Chrysler Pentastar Logo

The impeller is black, and seems to be plastic. The shaft turns freely, but absolutely no play was detectable by hand.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-29-2012, 07:02 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 29
Default

After contacting 6 local dealerships and 4 aftermarket parts stores:

Timing Belt Hydraulic tensioner (have been told that Chrysler also calls this a "damper". P/N 4573347. Standard Canadian Dealer price = $186. Have been quoted as high as $208. Presumably this is the "original" factory part. Today it superceded to P/N 4892109AA which MUST be paired with pulley P/N 4663515AD. Original pulley P/N is 4663515.

If I read this right, then if original pulley is not available, then if the newer pulley is used then the newer tensioner must also be used - regardless of the condition of the original tensioner.

Standard Canadian dealer price for original pulley is $98 (have been quoted as high as $118). Standard price for newer tensioner is $184 (highest = $206). Standard price for newer pulley is $69 (highest = $84).

Original pulley is practically non-existant locally and (so I'm told) in the US. Original tensioner is still available. Newer pulley must come from the US (none in Ontario).

Three to four out of 6 local dealerships quote the "standard" price for all items. One out of six consistently quote 10 to 30% higher.

Standard price for timing belt (P/N 4792353) is $220 (highest = $275).

Water pump original P/N was 4792195 ($120), which superceeded to 4792195AB ($148) which now superceeds to value-line P/N V9900085
($133). 4792195AB (if I really want it) must come from the US (none in Ontario).

Front main seal (P/N 4792317AB) is quoted at $12.

Aftermarket part stores:

No parts stores sell the tensioner at all, and one or two have pulley but sometimes it's identified as a "timing component kit", and sometimes it is available as part of a kit with a timing belt (sometimes known as a belt and "roller" kit). Examples:

Dayco 84086 Pulley ($70 - $85)

Goodyear P/N GTK0255 ($85 - $130 belt + pulley)
Goodyear P/N 40295 ($173 belt only)
Dayco P/N 95295 ($180 - $216 belt only)
Gates TCK-295 ($290 Belt with pulley)
Gates TCK-295P ($317 Belt with pulley - and seals?)
Contitec TV295 ($152 belt only)
AC Delco or Dynagear ($152 belt only)

The P/N for the belt will usually have a "295" regardless who makes it because that's the number of teeth.

The Chrysler issue with the different versions of the tensioner and pulley combination are not indicated or are not present with the aftermarket pulleys (so it seems).

Aftermarket water pump comes in two flavors - remanufactured and new.

Fenco (Prestone?) ($80 - $124) new pump (NP1664)
AC Delco ($140) new pump (P/N 252-692)
Cardone ($85 + $15 core)
Prestone ($110) new pump (same as Fenco?)
ASC Industries ($124) new

This is what I'm looking at:

- replace timing belt
- replace timing belt pulley
- replace front main oil seal
- replace water pump
- replace upper and lower rad hoses
- change transmission oil and filter
- change differential oil
- change power steering fluid
- change engine coolant (but not doing "flush")

The bill for that is coming in at $1,700. The timing belt is $220, the pulley is $120, water pump is a little over $100, and labor is $300 - $400. Changing the oils/fluids for the differential, PS and trans is about $170 *each*. The rad hoses are probably pushing $100 each. With tax, this is going to be pushing $2k.
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  #10  
Old 03-29-2012, 07:03 AM
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Posts: 29
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I posted more material and got this message:

MoParrMan
Thank you for posting! Your post will not be visible until a moderator has approved it for posting.
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Old 03-29-2012, 07:03 AM
 
 
 
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1999, 300m, belt, belts, change, changed, chrysler, cost, hydraulic, kit, main, replacement, seal, tensioner, timing

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