Im sorry, but I really dont give a crap what spark plugs you guys put in your cars and trucks. All I did was give you valid numbers that I ran with my truck, regardless of what kind of truck it is. My dad has Boasch Platinum +4's in his Dodge grand caravan, do you want me to do a test in his van? Would that make you guys happy.

Oh and I worked for GM for 4 years and no they dont give a crap about what goes into there car. If you were right Djinn, then why doesnt all the car manufacturers put lifetime K&N air filters in there vehicals? This would greatly increase MPG and give your vehical better emmisions. There are so many MODs out there that can be done to your car to INCREASE MPG, well why isnt my car or truck fully MODed right from the dealer since they car so much about brownie points with the government.

Unfirtunatly, when people get proved that they are wrong they get mad. I think thats what happened in this forum. Oh, and I do own a Jeep Wrangler...

 

You need to pay attention to what was said, and turn off the "SPEED CHANNEL".

A K/N filter doesnt do ANYTHING for Mileage , emmissions or Power...THAT REMOVING THE FILTER COMPLETELY WOULD NOT ACCOMPLISH.

Now...Since youre into this little "THE NUMBERS DONT LIE" scenario.....I have a few Numbers For you...Taken From real world tests in the service Bay at a Chrysler dealership with REAL Customers.....I went back this morning and Verified My numbers... Over a Three month Period...17 Vehicles , Ranging from a 2.0L neon, to a HEMI Challenger, as well as Two 4.7 ASPENS , Have been Satisfactorily REPAIRED for Driveability concerns, BY REMOVING recently installed "Premium Spark Plugs". and Installing The Correct application of Either Champion COPPER, Or NGK standard...

Only one of those Vehicles showed symptoms of POOR quality Installation. out of the remaining 16, there was NO EVIDENCE of installer error.

13 of the 17 Customers didnt understand why They spent all that money on Sparkplugs that made there car actually run Worse than before.....In ALL CASES the USed Spark plugs were returned to the customer in an attempt to obtain a Refund.

Now...I'm Not Mad at all.....You are entitled to your opinion...and you have every right to be....But YOU CERTAINLY HAVENT PROVEN ME WRONG...

SO ...I will clarify one more Time, as our Moderator Told you......CHANGING SPARKPLUGS ON A SPEED DENSITY EQUIPPED VEHICLE DOESNT GAIN YOU ANYTHING...But it definitely has the potential to get really Ugly, when you charge a Customer 11.50 per plug, and the car runs like Doggie water when youre done.

 

U gave valid number for MASS air flow systems yes but they will not work for speed density system like all Chrysler use.

Now read this and take note and I will make it big for u the last section

Speed Density
Speed Density systems accept input from sensors that measure engine speed (in rpm) and load (manifold vacuum in kPa), then the computer calculates airflow requirements by referring to a much larger (in comparison to an N Alpha system) preprogrammed lookup table, a map of thousands of values that equates to the engine’s volumetric efficiency (VE) under varying conditions of throttle position and engine speed. Engine rpm is provided via a tach signal, while vacuum is transmitted via an intake manifold-mounted Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) sensor. Since air density changes with air temperature, an intake manifold-mounted sensor is also used.

Production-based Speed Density computers also utilize an oxygen (O2) sensor mounted in the exhaust tract. The computer looks at the air/fuel ratio from the O2 sensor and corrects the fuel delivery for any errors. This helps compensate for wear and tear and production variables. Other sensors on a typical Speed Density system usually include an idle-air control motor to help regulate idle speed, a throttle-position sensor that transmits the percentage of throttle opening, a coolant-temperature sensor, and a knock sensor as a final fail-safe that hears detonation so the computer can retard timing as needed.

GM’s Tuned Port Injection (TPI) set-ups used Speed Density metering from ’90-’92, as did ’91-’93 LT1 engines. All ’86-’87 and ’88 non-California Ford 5.0L-HO engines used Speed Density metering. Most Mopar fuel- injection systems have used Speed Density too.

Because a Speed Density system still has no sensors that directly measure engine airflow, all the fuel mapping points must be preprogrammed, so any significant change to the engine that alters its VE requires reprogramming the computer.

 

Auto manufacturers spend MILLIONS of dollars for minimal gains in fuel economy to meet standards, and for marketing purposes. If a $10 plug netted several mpg, you can be sure they would ALL be using them in favor of spending millions in R&D to make the engines more efficient.

Do yourself a favor - calm down and take a deep breath before posting again.

 

Regarding K&N air filters, it is arguable that they are not efficient at removing dirt particles as well as standard OEM air filters.

 

That, in a nutshell, pretty much sums up all the logic here.

However, you can't tell these gearheads and ricers that they're wrong, because all of their cool buds told them everything they know. These unsuspecting people are what keep these SHAM companies alive. Might as well throw practical application out the window. If a lie is told enough times by enough people, then it becomes believeable. This is no different of a scenario than some hot chick on cable at 3 AM telling you that you can lose 100 pounds in 6 months by sprinkling some bull$hit on your food. Or that you can look like a golden boy by using an ab cruncher. BTW, I have some fuel line magnets for sale. ......lol.

 

Arguable is not the right word here. I pull crap out of throttle bodies all the time that these $hit filters let through. And when you flip the plenum over and see all the embedded garbage stuck in the varnish, you wonder how much got through to the cylinder.


sry about the double post

 

OK, You guys have your training, I respect that. I know they have all kinds of different things they tell you and all the text books and computer stuff they give you so that you know all about the Chrysler way of life. How do you know this stuff doesnt work? have you done the math? Well, math will only get you so far because unless you have tried these things, then how do you know? Do you have a stock Dodge or Chrysler product Chrysler Tech? No MODs at all?

Well, Djinn, your getting your numbers from a dealership repair shop...do I have to say anymore. Have you seen anyone just stopping in a saying, "hey my car runs great on these new Iridium plugs." or "I love these Bosch Platinum +4s, you should get 'em". I dont think so. Those people dont go to the dealership because they dont need to be repaired. So your numbers are flawed because they dont consider the amoutn of people that have had a positive outcome. I did include my brothers numbers by saying that after 3 months, 2 of his E3's had kicked the bucket. I added positive and negative numbers. Every car or truck thats in your garage needs to be repaired.

First of all, I already have rock hard abs, just because I have a protective covering over them doesnt mean there not there... and those Magnets ARE a scam. The only thing I could think of is that they remove minute particals that could get gummed into your injectors...what a joke! Cool buds? I live in The Upper Pennisula of Michigan. My Nissan Titan is considered luxury here which is pretty sad. And finally, I have DishNetwork Family package. I watch TV about 2hrs...a week! I dont have time for TV.

Right from the K&N Website:
A sister product to our 57 Series FIPK, our 63 Series AirCharger® Intake Kits are guaranteed to increase horsepower and come with a Million Mile Limited Warranty. K&N intake systems replace your vehicle's restrictive factory air filter and air intake housing. K&N intakes are designed to dramatically reduce intake restriction as they smooth and straighten air flow. This allows your vehicle's engine to inhale a larger amount of air than the OEM air filter assembly. More air means more usable power and acceleration throughout the engine's RPM range. The filters on these kits are washable and reusable. Most of our intake kits are relatively easy to install using tools commonly available (see installation instructions). 63 Series Intakes are street legal in most states. They are not legal for use in California and other states adopting California emission standards.

Estimated Horsepower Gain: 10.48 HP @ 5445 RPM

Ok, so K&N is wrong huh Djinn. This is there base model Air filter. Technically they cant even put this on there website unless it has been tested and verified. Plus, they garantee it? Thats funny, this is for a 2008 Dodge Ram 1500? Dirt particals dont have anything to do with why a better air intake will give you increased HP. I Dyno'ed my truck at stock 321hp in the summer of 2008. Since then I've installed 3 things: a new Flowmaster exhaust, a Vortec Powercore air intake, and a Vortex Cyclone. I Dyno'ed again in the summer of 2010 and im pushing 358hp, not as much as I wanted but still a significant increase. Im sure that this is gonna be quoted and ripped on but hey, Im the one with the parts INSTALLED and the NUMBERS run. My truck is NOT chipped and I have not adjusted my SM(stoichiometric mixture) or my VE(volumetric efficiency)

You know, I think im gonna have to pimp out my Wrangler, then maybe you'll start listening to me.

 

Yes i have a stock 2.7 engine with factory air filter and everything on is factory. I get on avg around town 20 mpg on high way 26 With champion plat plugs.


Why did u not put the E3 plugs in your ram or wrangler then talk to us then
I want those number Wright down how much u fill it up how many gal how many miles u get off each tank full then report back in say 1 month I will put it on the calendar to check back on this post if I dont hear anything or number posted say by AUG 8 silence will be the answer I was looking for. As for the dyno test was it the same temp outside each time? what about the baro was it the same or the density of the air what was it? all of those items will affect each time the performance of the engine.
Ever seen drag racers run different when its hot outside compared to when its cooler? The cooler air will give more mass to the amount of air in a cubic volume of space and get more energy can be produced. DO me and everyone else on this forum a favor dont bring up your titan or any other car that u have unless it is a chrysler dodge or jeep any thing else on a forum that is solely chrysler stuff is like pissing in the wind and has no bearing on anything on here. Get the facts on the dodge and wrangler then get back to this discussion.

"math will only get you so far because unless you have tried these things" What is this are u for real? Ever heard of placebo effect? U want something to work so badly u will disregard any common sense u have. Math and physics when it comes to machines is what rules the roost.

 

I have been on BMW forums and more specifically the 300Mclub forum for a few years. No one, no one, has ever "recommended" these plugs. Bosch +4 or NGK is all anyone on the 300M forum uses. The rest is garbage, at least for these vehicles.