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Fuel pressure bad cold start

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  #11  
Old 01-30-2017, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Vmaxxer
I tried to pinpoint the clicking sound but when I turn the key (before starting) I hear no clicks but in stead a buzzing sound somewhere from the rear. originating somewhere behind the fuel tank I guess.
Can that be correct?
Buzzing is indeed indicative of a failing pump but can also be a sign of a badly secured pump vibrating against metal. Given your issue I'd test the pump for effectiveness / noise.
 
  #12  
Old 01-31-2017, 02:37 AM
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Hi m8,
Mine is a 2005 2.8CRD but as QinteQ says mine is non stow-n-go so has the rear lift pump like yours.
Mine is less of a click it's a humm/buzz, it runs for around 20 seconds (I've not timed it!) after turning ignition on before starting.
I replaced the filter in mine a few months ago as I have the same difficult cold start, etc and the filter was an easy one to replace. However it wasn't the issue with mine. Pressure seems fine on mine so I'm still looking at what else it could be.

One thing to try that would help point to if it's pump/pressure, turn on, wait until the pump runs to it's full sequence then try to start. If the pump is weak then giving that extra time before starting could help it build pressure up.
(Again, i've done this many times and it doesn't help in my case, though I've yet to have a non-start on mine)
 
  #13  
Old 02-15-2017, 02:54 PM
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The 2.5CRD still has a hard time starting in the cold but it seems also related to being unused for a longer period of time. (say 24+ hours)
I also had a mechanic looking at the electrics and as I suspected glow spirals and all was fine.
Car also runs perfectly well if I can get it to work and starts perfectly well when warm.
The mechanic also stated that when starting there was too little fuel(pressure) on the rail but he lacked the equipment to investigate further.
so:
All this leads me to believe the starting pressure/fuel transport is somewhere faulting like QinteQ and Andy already did suggest.\
What could that be?
When I follow the already given suggestions it could be the fuel pump in the tank and/or the fuel filter.
Is there an easy procedure for testing the pump? (besides the clicking?)
 
  #14  
Old 02-16-2017, 06:54 PM
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Through other replies and looking into the fuel system for another person I've done more reading on how the lift pump runs, etc.
The lift pump runs on what appears to be a simple timer as there isn't a pressure switch on the low-pressure side. They all appear to run between 7 and 10 seconds before automatically cutting out.

I'm wondering if you've got a slow leak somewhere, so when it sits for a while, it drains back/gets air in and struggles to start.

On a cold start (after long sitting) turn ignition key to on (so plug lights on and pump starts), wait for pump to cut out. Then turn ignition key off. Repeat that I'd say 5-10 times (As though you were priming it after changing the fuel filter) and then try to start. See if that changes how it starts. My guess is it'll start better, meaning you've got a slow leak/drain somewhere in your low pressure fuel lines.

Here is the list of components for the fuel rail (Note no low pressure switch, only high pressure):



And the associated info on the pump relay and how the IPM supplies power for a short time only at initial ignition on:



See how you get on and see if it helps at all.
 
Attached Thumbnails Fuel pressure bad cold start-fuel_rail_gv.png   Fuel pressure bad cold start-fuelpump_diagram.png  
  #15  
Old 02-17-2017, 01:28 PM
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Andy, good idea switching starterkey a few time before starting, I'll check that out.
I also decided I will change the fuelfilter on the tank and will check out the liftpump while I (or rather my mechanic ) am working at that area.

Wondering which filter I need, the paper filter or the somewhat larger case filter?
I seem to find both online for the CRD..
 
  #16  
Old 02-17-2017, 02:35 PM
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Yeah, worth changing as it's a cheap one to try just in case. It's the paper one you want:
Crosland Fuel Filter
(Not sure if you're in the UK but it shows what you're after)
The other one that's the metal can is for the ones that spin on in the engine bay, ours fits into the base of the pump housing

You never know, even just removing the pump housing and check the plastic for cracks, fit a new seal (Comes with it from eurocarparts).

Fingers crossed!
 
  #17  
Old 03-03-2017, 01:11 PM
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LOL
Today I went to my mechanic who I asked to replace the fuelfilter and check the liftpump.
When I brought him the filter I told him I suspected the filter was inside the pumphousing which presumably was located in the fueltank.
All afternoon his assistant was busy getting the fueltank dismantled to find the filter before he found the liftpump was located next to the fueltank

They didn't find anything wrong with the liftpump but the old filter was very dirty... They did only a visual inspection of the pump tho..
So I'll check if there's any improvement tomorrow otherwise I might try to find a good replacement pump and they can mount that.
 
  #18  
Old 03-04-2017, 03:58 AM
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hmmm...
This morning (~ 3 celsius) the car started without any problem within 3 seconds
If the GV starts that quick again tomorrow morning we may conclude that all this winterhassle was due to a very dirty fuelfilter.
 
  #19  
Old 03-05-2017, 02:10 AM
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HOORAY!
This morning the GV started even within 2 seconds with barely any glowtime.
And that after a 24 hour cooling down period.

It's now save to say all the starting problems where due to a clogged fuelfilter, worsening when the temperature was low.

#happy
 
  #20  
Old 04-16-2017, 11:03 AM
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Dagnabbit!!

After replacing the fuelfilter the Chrysler started very well for several weeks but had more difficulties starting day by day, until the point I had to use brakecleaner (again) every morning since last week...
Today the car didn't start at all..

So back to square 1

Since the starting problems only occur after idle time for > 8 hours I'm back to the basic idea the fuel doesn't get from the tank to the engine (fuel flows back in the fuellines to the tank over time when parked). The new fuel filter looks to be a temporary fix probably due to the fact that pressure had less problems building up whit the clean filter.. now after a while the filter blocks the already weak pressure again.

I think I now have to replace the fuel lift pump and/or find the leakage in the pressure lines.

Or does someone else have a better idea?
 


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