MOT next Week and ABS is lit on Dash.
#1
10-25-2014, 02:11 PM
MOT next Week and ABS is lit on Dash.
Well finally got to sort ABS fault, it and brake service all round. Front discs are not pulling up as they should and pads need renewal. Rears to follow and that dreaded handbrake.
Anyway ABS, better to start at easy bit at wheel sensor or is it easy. Well no there's a lot of wire brushing which doesn't really help as scraping out the rust between the castellation on the ABS ring on drive shafts is required and its a hard scrap.
Well job done on one shaft and rust even came off tips of squares on rings but not just surface rust but bits of rust. Will this matter to the ABS signal, well maybe if gap between sensor and ring is too much.
Manual quotes Front Sensor gap 0.35-1.20mm well I've measured about 1.20-1.30mm so wondering if I can reduce it at the sensor screw.
See my pics as to ABS ring, gap and where to pivot file when turning shaft to smooth down tops.
Job not as easy as its though to possibility of having to renew ABS rings if badly rusted.
Ooops need to transfer pictures.
Anyway ABS, better to start at easy bit at wheel sensor or is it easy. Well no there's a lot of wire brushing which doesn't really help as scraping out the rust between the castellation on the ABS ring on drive shafts is required and its a hard scrap.
Well job done on one shaft and rust even came off tips of squares on rings but not just surface rust but bits of rust. Will this matter to the ABS signal, well maybe if gap between sensor and ring is too much.
Manual quotes Front Sensor gap 0.35-1.20mm well I've measured about 1.20-1.30mm so wondering if I can reduce it at the sensor screw.
See my pics as to ABS ring, gap and where to pivot file when turning shaft to smooth down tops.
Job not as easy as its though to possibility of having to renew ABS rings if badly rusted.
Ooops need to transfer pictures.
Last edited by goggs; 10-25-2014 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Adding Pictures
i bet mine is just ad rusty an all! I might just get under there on monday and take a look as the Mrs has said about the dash light going on and off all the time.
#3
10-26-2014, 04:18 AM
Re. ABS toothed actuator wheel; try a small flat warding file on those rusty deposits, such a file should get down to the bottom of the teeth as the edge of the warding file is abrasive too. TIP -- rust is just as magnetic as steel, you gotta get rid of it all to get a good clean signal from the pick-up coil.
There should be "designed-in" tolerance from the micro's input circuitryto a poor-ish PG signal from the coil, so the job shouldn't be that finnicky.
I'm wondering if you would do something for me if you have to get the rear "drum in hat" discs off to fix up the handbrake efficiency for the MOT.
While off the vehicle, will you try an abrasive wheel on your drill on the surfaces of the handbrake-drum portion of discs. You gan get get what I call "flapper" gadgets for the drill consisting of a large number of garnet-paper squares fastened to a drum, whereby the edges of these garnet-paper squares do the biz. And as they wear down, new abrasive is revealed automatically to the job. This will need some time for what I have in mind as the cast iron is extremely hard indeed, hence garnet-paper abrasive being needed.
I'm theorizing ATM that due to constant heat cycling over time from the pads/disc part of the disc, the surface of the drum/handbrake can get a metallic change on its surface to this cementite stuff cast iron can degrade down to with heat and pressure. I know from my own repair work on the front discs that this cementite stuff CAN be ground off with suitable abrasive (garnet) and some time being spent on the job. Nothing to lose here, everything to gain. BTW, forget a manual clean-up, you'll be at it for a week -- a machine is needed on this one.
Will you let us know if it works and gives a firm handbrake? That isn't to say the other servicing on the handbrake mechanism on the shoe actuators won't be necessary too, such as cleaning and appropriate greasing plus adjustment.
Cheers,
Leedsman.
There should be "designed-in" tolerance from the micro's input circuitryto a poor-ish PG signal from the coil, so the job shouldn't be that finnicky.
I'm wondering if you would do something for me if you have to get the rear "drum in hat" discs off to fix up the handbrake efficiency for the MOT.
While off the vehicle, will you try an abrasive wheel on your drill on the surfaces of the handbrake-drum portion of discs. You gan get get what I call "flapper" gadgets for the drill consisting of a large number of garnet-paper squares fastened to a drum, whereby the edges of these garnet-paper squares do the biz. And as they wear down, new abrasive is revealed automatically to the job. This will need some time for what I have in mind as the cast iron is extremely hard indeed, hence garnet-paper abrasive being needed.
I'm theorizing ATM that due to constant heat cycling over time from the pads/disc part of the disc, the surface of the drum/handbrake can get a metallic change on its surface to this cementite stuff cast iron can degrade down to with heat and pressure. I know from my own repair work on the front discs that this cementite stuff CAN be ground off with suitable abrasive (garnet) and some time being spent on the job. Nothing to lose here, everything to gain. BTW, forget a manual clean-up, you'll be at it for a week -- a machine is needed on this one.
Will you let us know if it works and gives a firm handbrake? That isn't to say the other servicing on the handbrake mechanism on the shoe actuators won't be necessary too, such as cleaning and appropriate greasing plus adjustment.
Cheers,
Leedsman.
#4
10-26-2014, 08:43 AM
Hi, Leedsman not quite into this roughing up the drum surface for shoes to grab it more, as normal cars with shoes as handbrakes don't have this problem. But will be looking into how much of the brake shoe has actually contacted the drum as they don't wear with use.
This routing of the handbrake cable from handbrake to shoes via its sheathing/metal plastic tubing possibly causes a lack of handbrake, which I think it does as when you pull handbrake on shoes apply and sheathing crushes/shrinks especially at the quarter circles it takes. Would lubricating cable in sheathing help, yes less friction.
But its raining and windy at mo, hope for some dry weather or patio pergola will need to come out.
Its frustrating that I can't get on it...
Job continues...well started.
This routing of the handbrake cable from handbrake to shoes via its sheathing/metal plastic tubing possibly causes a lack of handbrake, which I think it does as when you pull handbrake on shoes apply and sheathing crushes/shrinks especially at the quarter circles it takes. Would lubricating cable in sheathing help, yes less friction.
But its raining and windy at mo, hope for some dry weather or patio pergola will need to come out.
Its frustrating that I can't get on it...
Job continues...well started.
#5
10-27-2014, 02:32 PM
Nearside brakes and ABS ring on drive shaft now cleaned as per Offside. Had a check on the ABS sensors wiring plugs behind main coil springs. God they are a pain to open, had to put a small screwdriver up back of plugs to get them off body/mud shield and find their supposed to just slide off towards front of car.
Anyway nearside ABS plug pins are open circuit both ways.
Offside ABS plug pins are open circuit one way, 3.9M ohm other way.
Was it you Leedsman that said sensor is just a coil, like a generator.
New ABS sensors ordered and will take reading of them before they go on.
Front of car sitting on 2mx100mmx100mm beam at mo, across under floor. Jack up one side then other, double brick pillars below.
Bit risky starting work at rear with front up, awaiting parts.
Anyway nearside ABS plug pins are open circuit both ways.
Offside ABS plug pins are open circuit one way, 3.9M ohm other way.
Was it you Leedsman that said sensor is just a coil, like a generator.
New ABS sensors ordered and will take reading of them before they go on.
Front of car sitting on 2mx100mmx100mm beam at mo, across under floor. Jack up one side then other, double brick pillars below.
Bit risky starting work at rear with front up, awaiting parts.
#7
10-29-2014, 02:47 PM
ABS Sensors front end
Following on, new sensors arrived and their 0.480 M Ohm resistance both ways both sides. Hence my old Sensors were Ar*ed.
Sensors fitted and by god I had no need to bother about increase of clearance due to loss of metal/rust from Reluctor ring castellation's. Clearance Gap at offside around 0.7mm. Nearside close is all I can say, but no rubbing.
Car started, ABS fault went out, so circuit through sensors must turn it off.
Test on road confirms
I'm sure I read in Workshop Manual, ABS fault section, that the fault light is extinguished after travelling at 30-40mph so computer sees sensors are now ok. Contradicting or...
Passenger Side Sensor 4683471AD
Driver side sensor 4683470AD
Tomorrow sees handbrake looksee, tune, adjust, whatever.
Sensors fitted and by god I had no need to bother about increase of clearance due to loss of metal/rust from Reluctor ring castellation's. Clearance Gap at offside around 0.7mm. Nearside close is all I can say, but no rubbing.
Car started, ABS fault went out, so circuit through sensors must turn it off.
Test on road confirms
I'm sure I read in Workshop Manual, ABS fault section, that the fault light is extinguished after travelling at 30-40mph so computer sees sensors are now ok. Contradicting or...
Passenger Side Sensor 4683471AD
Driver side sensor 4683470AD
Tomorrow sees handbrake looksee, tune, adjust, whatever.
#9
10-30-2014, 02:48 PM
Anyway rear brakes & handbrake:
Rear top hat Discs, Pads and Shoes were replaced last year and some 8,000mls attained. Find pads with little wear and disc surfaces as new.
But inside brake shoe compartment it is a total mess of rust and shoe dust.
Offside inner disc showing surface water damage in the form of pitting to a third section, as if drum had been sitting in water.
Nearside drum came up after a good power wire brushing and settled for wire brushing offside as well.
Both disc/drums came off tight and went back on loose. Slack taken up at adjuster.
As too shoes they are pretty well worn as if they had been used in braking process and will be needing renewed ASAP. But the shoes are only supposed to be handbrake shoes so how are they wearing away. Has this handbrake mechanism at lever got something to do with it.
At moment this should do for MOT.
Rear top hat Discs, Pads and Shoes were replaced last year and some 8,000mls attained. Find pads with little wear and disc surfaces as new.
But inside brake shoe compartment it is a total mess of rust and shoe dust.
Offside inner disc showing surface water damage in the form of pitting to a third section, as if drum had been sitting in water.
Nearside drum came up after a good power wire brushing and settled for wire brushing offside as well.
Both disc/drums came off tight and went back on loose. Slack taken up at adjuster.
As too shoes they are pretty well worn as if they had been used in braking process and will be needing renewed ASAP. But the shoes are only supposed to be handbrake shoes so how are they wearing away. Has this handbrake mechanism at lever got something to do with it.
At moment this should do for MOT.
#10
10-30-2014, 06:24 PM
Anyway rear brakes & handbrake:
Rear top hat Discs, Pads and Shoes were replaced last year and some 8,000mls attained. Find pads with little wear and disc surfaces as new.
But inside brake shoe compartment it is a total mess of rust and shoe dust.
Offside inner disc showing surface water damage in the form of pitting to a third section, as if drum had been sitting in water.
Nearside drum came up after a good power wire brushing and settled for wire brushing offside as well.
Both disc/drums came off tight and went back on loose. Slack taken up at adjuster.
As too shoes they are pretty well worn as if they had been used in braking process and will be needing renewed ASAP. But the shoes are only supposed to be handbrake shoes so how are they wearing away. Has this handbrake mechanism at lever got something to do with it.
At moment this should do for MOT.
Rear top hat Discs, Pads and Shoes were replaced last year and some 8,000mls attained. Find pads with little wear and disc surfaces as new.
But inside brake shoe compartment it is a total mess of rust and shoe dust.
Offside inner disc showing surface water damage in the form of pitting to a third section, as if drum had been sitting in water.
Nearside drum came up after a good power wire brushing and settled for wire brushing offside as well.
Both disc/drums came off tight and went back on loose. Slack taken up at adjuster.
As too shoes they are pretty well worn as if they had been used in braking process and will be needing renewed ASAP. But the shoes are only supposed to be handbrake shoes so how are they wearing away. Has this handbrake mechanism at lever got something to do with it.
At moment this should do for MOT.
- driving with a loud stereo and the handbrick on could ruin a pair of shoes in just a very quickly
- yes the guaranteed favourite is badly fitted / adjusted [too tight] in the first place (1) handbrick or (2) shoes
- if someone did the job 'badly' for you - you might never ever know till you stripped and eyeballed it yourself