Ball bearings in a cement mixer

Did a whole hour everything including Gumtree with a radius of 60 miles from the Pool. What I found what I expected, very high mileage overpriced crap. Goggsy did the same around his area.

A second and much more informed 'expert' opinion was always needed, trouble is they are investigative and not free. As far as reading what's been written thus far there's not one iota of fact that the balance shafts are at fault. You may have a lead but I'd need a second same diagnosis before spending.

If its a real bag of hammers picking which particular hammer is at fault is a minefield. Is it drivable Andy ? When was your last engine oil change ? Do you 'drop gear' or use kick down often ?As it was - it was a noise, not a full catastrophic fail, it could be anything from a pully to a rattling injector maybe get 5 litres of thick full synth from Amazon and a new filter on it, that £30 quid might lead to a few answers with no other parts bought till a better formulated battle plan is in view. Everything up to this point is based on one 'quickie' opinion. Now I've known about the balance shafts since our V8 days when I was not yet 30 so 40+ years but I've never know 1st or 2nd hand, any single one person with the problem.

The shafts have wear bearings both ends, care, they attach to your timing but is it getting worse / louder ? -, you might get 4 years without it getting worse Andy

 

Yes it's an issue of taking the engine out to find out the problem. Their doesn't seem to be anything in internet regarding problems of Balance Shafts on CRD engine. But looking back on here, 8th April 2015 at 11.40pm there was a guy mentioned he had a Kia Sedona where the balance shaft drive gear was stripped. I can see this being the only week link in the drive to the shafts seeing that they revolve at twice engine speed. Why this engine has balance shafts is due to its size, like other big Four Cylinder engines, that is the size of those four big con rods that produce the vibs even though engine is balanced. Vertically opposed engines have not this problem.
The Merc M272 engine had/has a known balance shaft problem and as far as I can see they are chain driven and the drive cog to the shaft wears its teeth away, so, well might as well fit a V belt.

 

Hi folks,

thanks QinteQ as always good ifo, so far I've not spent a penny on it as I've got advice for free and done all the diagnostics myself so trying to cut a few corners out of an investigation from a garage, as you say it's always a paid option so the more I can eliminate myself helps.
goggs, I found a few searches on similar engines (more 2.5 than 2.8) that had a few mentions, and from the initial garage man suggesting them I went for that option. It was an option I could check myself.

So today I went up and took the sum off again, and the 6 bolts that hold the balance assembly on (It also supports the oil intake feed), relatively easy to do just messy and underneath the car for a while.
Took it out, put the sump back on and put the oil back in for a test, started up and SAME NOISE, so I've now eliminated:

• All accessory belts, pulleys, a/c clutch, etc
• Power steering pump and belt
• Balance shaft assembly

Which leaves me with the more major engine parts as the potential fault. So I'm now thinking what my next move is.

One question, could the starter motor/motor gears cause this? If they weren't dis-engaging properly or am I wildly out here? Just thinking of the one last part I can check myself, although removing it won't help as I won't then be able to start up and test!

So other than that, I'm trying to decide what to do next, I guess I now have the choice of:

• Scrap it for pennies
• Try to sell it as faulty on ebay/gumtree
• Take it to local garage, start investigations and pay
• ??

Not looking hopeful this though to be honest.

I've also done a bit more listening to the noise, and I've recognised that it is most obvious at low revs, it doesn't disappear as revs increase slightly, it's still there and does sound a little bearing-like rattle/rumble, but all just a guess. Here's another video I made trying to identify the noise.

 

Right then you can go several checks with Balancer out. Check big ends for wear and the noise. Check main bearings but big ends more likely. then there's the little end up in the piston, need to check piston drops and rises with no lag on turning crank.
Read somewhere about fitting Balancer unit with setting pins like an extra timing setting pin. Did you check if balancer was in the right position by using a pin before removing it.
I'm still thinking of the Flexi Plate cracked at crank end. Can you see it with sump off.

 

Hi goggs,

Yes flex plate was one of the early ones, and yes wtih the sump off I can see it clearly, each of the bolts as I turn the crank, looks to be no cracks or stress on it at all so looks more to be engine-end of things.
(BTW yes, I have the timing kit with the balancer setting pin, I've not put it back on, but doing so you pin set the balancer, set the main shaft to the bolt position and fit it at that)

So, big ends, the noise doesn't get worse or make noise under load (Heading up a hill giving it power) or when I lift off after said heavy load, only when revs drop down to the 1,200rpm range so that makes me think less bottom end (bearings, etc).

I'm wondering, could injectors cause this, more specifically timing of firing of injectors or faulty injector causing mis-fire/bad timing of compression/bang?

 

Here's an interesting answer:- Slapping at Idle. Loudest at Idle. Calms on Acceleration. No smoke. No loss of power.
Its called Injector knock. Caused by a faulty sticking injector..Only happens at idle but ok all other times. Lazy injector has been mentioned.

 

Well, my investigations continue!
I went down the injector fault route, so firstly listened closely to each injector as goggsy and others said. Each one sounded ok, clicking in a rhythmic manner and no stutters or change to each one.
I then disconnected the return pipes and fed them into jam jars, monitored them and all four gave a little return but not loads, all about equal, so again don't think this is indicating a major problem with them.



Then I decided to try this, disconnect the injector power one by one and see if the noise changes or stops. I did this by disconnecting the connector on the injector then turning the engine over on the starter (It wouldn't start with an injector disconnected), did this one by one and the noise was still there, so that to me eliminates the injectors as the source of noise.

So that takes me back to mechanical.
I tried listening to the rockers through the rocker cover but the noise wasn't louder (If anything it was quieter) so that doesn't suggest anything there at fault.
This takes me back to the big end bearings or the mechanical parts unfortunately.

Anyone got any more suggestions as I'm running out of ideas, so it's creeping closer to being ditched and moving onto a new car :-(

 

I'll ask an oily-bits expert, now long retired for a 'listen' favour for you - it will be down to him of course. Runner or on stilts ? and which area of the Pool ?

Don't give Addy + or phone here. I'll open my PM for the 1st time ever after 20:00 tonight and give you my phone number - ring and I'll ask our Jimmy if he will ask John to help with diagnosis.

 

You're a proper gent, however I fear this will be difficult as the car is currently at my parents place (Consett) on stands and with various bits taken off so getting it to the pool in current state would be tricky.
I'm going to have a rethink of strategy and figure what's next, so hold off on the mech (unless he's up for having a guess over the phone) and will see what I can figure out.
Thanks again, appreciate the offer.

 

Just got off the phone (1 hr +) with our Jimmy, I'll post the thread to JIMBO and John, then John can give an opinion. I'll offer John a ride to Consett, yes we will bring passport's! but if its in bits and a non-runner its a worse guesstimate than the vids.

Let's then let John read the thread and hear the vid and see where we go from there. I'll leave the PM locked down for now Andy.