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My wife & I own a 2001 Town & Country LX 3.3L FlexFuel with 82000 milesthat has been running rough, intermittantly, for the past few months and I'm getting frustrated because I can't figure out what's causing the problem.
I replaced the battery in 8/06 after it died. No other problems ath this time. Had charging system checked w/new battery installed, test showed charging system o.k.. Old battery tested bad btw. Vanwas running fine.About a month after that the problem started.
In late 9/06 an intermittant misfire/hesitation began occurring, mostly would run normal but occasionally would hesitate under acceleration. I changed the spark plugs and plug wires (Champion RE14PLP5 single electrode and Duralast 7mm wires.), checked the air filter andadded a bottle of Techron Fuel System Cleaner thru a full tank of gas. Hesitation quickly returned and progressively got worse to the point where the check engine light came on andmy wife would not drive it anymore. 11/06, Brought to Dodge dealer (we'll callit "A") who said code showed bad EGR valve. I replaced EGR valve and checked allpassages for carbon buildup and for vacuum, but this did not improve performance. However,sometimes the van runs perfect. It's like there's an on/off switch.
Van sat for 2 months andthen in 2/07we took it to Chrysler Dealer ("B"). They got codes P0172, rich fuel/air mixture, P0303,and P0305,cylinders 3 & 5 misfiring. They told me my fuel injectors"are sticking" and recommended I replace them to the tune of $1,100! Seemed kinda high ;-) and a lot of money, too! They also told me they checked my compression in all cylinders, was o.k., but my #2spark plug had a cracked insulator.(Hmmm, curious.)Took van home. My neighbor works at a mom & pop auto parts store and was able to get me "Standard" (brand name) injectors athis cost $38ea. plus tax. They're identical to original equipment injectors, samegreen color, same color seals, same part# molded in. I replaced allsix of them along with the spark plugsagain,also the fuel filter (loads of fun),and the serpentine belt as maintenance. Started and ran perfect! Untilit warmed up and the sparkplugs fouled again. NowI'm really frustrated and a lot poorer.
Drove the van down to an independentChrysler specialist I found on the internetin the next town over named "Ted." Unfortunately, when I got to his shop he said that he had just"retired" from the Chrysler repair business and now sells Backyard Tikis and patio stuff out of his shop. But Ted still took some time to look at the van and checked a couple things out. He suggested I first check for vacuum leaks and that it may possibly be the ignition coil. I thanked him and drove off to get a can of starting fluid and check the price of the coil at an auto parts store nearby. Part wasout of stock and didn't find any vacuum leaks. Went by dealer "B" on the way home and they had the coil in stock, cheaper than the parts store! BTW - on my way from auto parts store to dealer, the van ran perfect!?!? Got home and installed the coil, also installed another set of plug wiresbut it there was no difference. Van is still running roughand the fuel milege across town and back was horrible! Took about a quarter tank to go about 25 miles.
Does anybody have any ideas as to what could be causing this problem? Also, any suggestions for a good Chrysler specialist in the Moreno Valley/Riverside, CA area?
Sorry for the length,
Thanks in advance for your help.
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alright bro U should have come here first b4 spending money on plugs and wires and such. What u have is a system that is dumping to much fuel and the computer is trying to make it right get it hack to 14.7 to 1 part fuel. I will attach in an email if u give it to me the flow chart with the stuff us chrysler techs use to fig out a prob. U more then likely wont be able to do much with it because u need a computer to read the sensors and values that goes along with this code. I am sorry i cant guess at this becuse it is such a large code meaning that there is 13 different things that can cause this code to pop up. I would say to start with get a can of brake cleaner and spray around the intake manafold the black plastic that goes to eash CYL. What this will do if there is a vac leak sucking in air it will rev the engine rpm up for a second. That is one mechanical thing that will cause this issue. But u say it will run good then go to crap right??? I would say its a bad sensor or wiring issue. But like i said I cant tell u with out seeinf for myself and I live in ATL sorry =). Give me an email address and I will send ya the flow chart that might help ya out some.
MIL on | SAE P0172 | SAE P0175 | => Explanation of possible causes for a FUEL SYSTEM RICH CODE.;Prior to replacing parts, please review the explanation below in the recommendation field.
System or Component
DTC / Error Message;Group 18 - Vehicle Performance / Driveability
Explanation of possible cause for a FUEL SYSTEM RICH CODE The Fuel System Rich code is set when: Short Term Compensation multiplied by Long Term Adaptive reaches a predetermined value. The actual number varies make model, but in general they will be highly negative when the condition set. Usually either short term or long term will be at -20 % or greater negative percentage. The adaptives become negative when the PCM decreases the injector pulse width in attempt to make the oxygen sensor switch uniformly about the PCM's oxygen sensor goal voltage. This means that the oxygen sensor is producing a voltage that is close to one volt ( 1.0v ) consistently indicating a low oxygen (rich) state in the exhaust. The causes of the oxygen sensor reading a higher voltage usually falls into three main categories: 1) Excessive amount of fuel, 2) Not enough air, or 3) The PCM is being provided with the improper information. THE FOLLOWING IS A GENERIC LIST OF POSSIBLE CAUSES. THE LIST IS PROVIDED AS AN EXAMPLE OF POSSIBILITIES. SOME OF THESE MAY NOT APPLY TO YOUR SPECIFIC VEHICLE. IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO DECIDE WHICH COULD APPLY. THIS IS NOT A COMPREHENSIVE LIST : MERELY THE MORE COMMON CAUSES. 1) EXCESSIVE AMOUNT OF FUEL -- there is such an abundance of fuel that there is no left over oxygen in the exhaust after combustion. -- This additional fuel could be caused by any of the following: TOO HIGH OF FUEL PRESSURE WRONG FUEL INJECTOR LEAKING OR WORN INJECTORS LEAKING INJECTOR O-RINGS CONTAMINATED CHARCOAL CANNISTER (liquid fuel) DEFECTIVE PURGE SYSTEM PRESSURE REGULATOR WITH A HOLE IN THE DIAPHRAM (vacuum compensated type ) 2) NOT ENOUGH AIR- For some reason the cylinders are not filling with the proper amount of air. The amount of oxygen in the combustion chamber is low . This condition could be caused by any of the following: CAM TIMING-(including loose timing chain, sheared cam dowel pins, keyways, or skipped teeth) WORN CAM LOBES OTHER VALVETRAIN PROBLEMS RESTRICTED EXHAUST EXCESSIVE EGR FLOW FOR CONDITION - (Be sure to verify that the vacuum hoses to the EGR vacuum transducer are routed correctly. If the vacuum lines are reversed the EGR valve will open and stay open until the engine is shut off.) 3) PCM IS BEING PROVIDED IMPROPER INFORMATION- If the PCM does not receive proper sensor readings it will not deliver the proper injector pulse width for conditions. The following is a list of sensor problems that could cause a fuel system rich code: COOLANT SENSOR CALIBRATION (sensor is reading much colder than the actual engine temperature). OXYGEN SENSOR CIRCUIT PROBLEM- (this includes O2 sensor heater, grounds, signal wire problems, and heater operation. Once the O2 sensor reaches operating temperature the voltage should never exceed 1.02v) MAP SENSOR CALIBRATION--One of the most important readings for testing a MAP sensor is the voltage reading obtained with the DRBIII with the ignition on and the engine off. This voltage reading is important because the PCM uses this for calculating barometric pressure. If the PCM does not "know" the correct air density from the MAP sensor (baro. reading) it will have to drastically change the fuel curve through the adaptives to get the proper response from the oxygen sensor. Below is a chart of key on MAP sensor readings for a given elevation. You should get to know what is normal for your area. Elevation (feet) Baro Reading (in.-hg.) MAP voltage 0 (sea level) 29.92 4.6v 29.67 500 29.42 29.17 1000 28.92 28.67 4.4v 1500 28,42 28.17 2000 27.92 27.67 2500 27.42 4.2v 27.17 3000 26.92 26.67 3500 26.42 26.17 4.0v 4000 25.92 25.67 4500 25.42 25.17 5000 24.92 3.8v VOLTAGE SENSE-- The PCM compensates the injector pulsewidth based upon charging system voltage. The higher the voltage=> the stronger the magnetic field opening the pintle valve in the injector. The PCM compensates for this condition. If the PCM sense a lower voltage than is applied to the injectors the Fuel System Rich Code could also result.Always insure base engine/cam timing is as desinged.
12/15/04 3:21 PM[/align]
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25 or so years exp.with chrysler,plymouth,dodge.jeep."A"tech at dodge /jeep dealership.living in N.J. "LET ME KNOW MOE!!