2.5crd 02 white smoke
 

grand voyager 02 2.5 crd with 143k
loads of white smoke on 1st start.no matter what temp outside
replaced glow plugs and relay switch last year but really hard to start when temp drops below 0 .could this be water in fuel.never had ffuel filter change in 2 years as i was told it never had one,is this true ? anyone got any ideas please
David

Have you drained the fuel filter lately? This is a 10 min job. You need a glas jar. Get under the car and look for the fuel filter assembly at the back. Turn the small round valve and see what comes out, and more importantlty if this solves your white smoke problem. If the water level is to high a warning light on your dash will should go on.

fuel filter should be drained only if the filter is new and you accidentaly end up with water in your tank during driving (warning light).
in all other cases, it is far better to get a new filter, especially when they are reallly cheap.

white smoke means two things.
1. either you are not getting enough fuel (clogged filter, parafine blokage due to low temperatures)
2. or your glow plugs are not working.

for first, all you can do is change fuel filter and use some sort of winter additive in your fuel. additive should be mixed with fuel BEFORE temperature drops below zero.

for second, you must check operation of glow plugs. even if the yellow ligh on the dash turns on, that does not mean that the plugs are heating the air. and if they don't, the engine will start harder and work irratically until it warms up.

thanx lads,
ok ive changed fuel filter and ive checked glow plugs and relay and all is working fine. now im thinking it could be blocked injector,it seems starved of fuel on start no matter what temp outside is. can a novice like myself take out and clean the injectors and whats involved ?
any pointers would be gratefully recd
Dave

how did you check glow plugs?
how do you know that they are heating as they should be?

couse, if you are still getting white smoke on first start, you don't have enough temperature inside the cilinder.

so, either you have to measure the flow of current that plugs are pulling (should be about 20 amps), or you should measure each plug with ohmmeter after taking it out of the engine. resistance for each plug should be very low, around 5 ohms. if its any higher than that, you have defective plug.

if that doesnt help, you should test the engine compression. low compression (worn cylinders or piston rings, bad valves) couse low temperature inside the engine and thus starting problems when it's cold.

Maybe this page helps:
http://www.difflock.com/diesel/troubleshooting.shtml

I had white smoke from my Olds diesel. It was a blown head gasket. I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

doesn't that come with low coolant?
becouse, that white smoke has to come from somewhere. and if it's from a blown gasket, that's the coolant leaking into the cylinders.

if the coolant level is OK, than it's not the gasket.

I've got the exact same problem. When it eventually starts theres the white smoke. This smoke stinks of unused diesel rather than just exhaust fumes.
I've changed the 3 easy to reach glowplugs and they are getting voltage (never checked for current though) as were the old ones.
Looking towards the windscreen, number 3 injector (left to right) has signs of a leaking injector (black buildup). I've had these out in a Fiesta before and changed the seals. These look easier to do.
I've now put an additive in to "decoke" everything.
I'll throw a filter into it as well.
Just to add, after it's started the once, you could leave it all day and it'll start no problem. It's just the initial first thing in the morning. I dont think it's only when it's cold, I just think it's more noticeable when its cold.

hi again.well ! just had electrics profesionally looked at and they are good,and then reputable local mechanic i know has had it overnight,his view is only firing on 3 cyls on 1st start up ,low compresssion on 1 cyl therefore rings shot !!!!!
what do you guys reckon on this ?

just a thought on this,if piston rings were shot surely it would have start problems all the time not just on 1st start of the day.could this be fuel which has somehow seeped into the cylinder/s overnight therefore floods the 1st start.if so that would be injectors? are they simple to take out and replace/clean and whats the cost ?

Hi
Costs from Jeep are from £250 to £800 each but you can get them from Bosch. Only one bolt hold them in but some times they can he hard to remove.

Still really frosty this morning.
What I done was removed the grey relay on the front panel and took it into the house for a heat on the radiator then hit it off the table a bit (incase it's suffering from the effects of the cold, I may be wrongly assuming this is the glowplug relay.)
I put it back in the car and switched the ignition on. Once the glowplug light extinguished, I sat a further 5-7 seconds listening to the fuel pump(lift pump?) to see if there was any change in the noise it made. (ignition probably on for around 11-13 secs in total)
Started first turn after 2-3 seconds.
Is the fuel perhaps leaking back into the tank overnight and theres none up there first thing to start? So thats what's giving the starting problems?
Just throwing in suggestions as I try to fix mine.

NO.

bad piston rings = low compression.
and compression is what creates heat.

without heat, there is no ignition.
with only small amount of heat, temperature inside the cylinder is low, thus creating white smoke on cold starts.

injectors are known problems on this engine. but if they would leak, you would have driving problems and black smoke on cold start.

which engine oil do you use?

all newer engines keep glow plugs ON for a while after the start (10, 15... seconds). it helps keep emission low.
this way, you raised the temperature inside the engine and that was enough for a good start. no harm, keep doing like that.

if you have a pick up pump (electric fuel pump), that one is only first stage pump and it can not create pressure in the fuel line before injectors. it only helps supllying the high pressure pump.
so, if the pump leaks, you wouldn't start at all, or would have trouble all the time while driving.

Is the check valve in the pick up pump or the high pressure pump?
The glow plugs being on for a while seems very likely and helps starting, but when I turn on the ignition, I can hear a pump going. When the sound of that pump changes, it starts without much problem.
If I switch the glowplugs on till the light extinguishes and do this 5 or 6 times, it doesnt help starting.

if there is a pressure relief valve, it should be located together with the low pressure pump, inside the fuel tank.
high pressure pump feeds the injectors, and any excess fuel is going back to tank via return fuel line (or even through fuel filter, to raise the fuel temp. in winter time).

from what you described, it looks like you have an electrical problem, rather then mechanical.
problem is, newer diesel engines will not fire injectors unless there is sufficiant cranking speed. so, if a sensor (crank sensor or starter sensor) does not read more than 300 rpm's at cranking, ECU will not inject any fuel into the cylinders.
so, maybe your pick up pump is taking too much juice from battery, and together with glow plugs, there is not enough left for cranking on these cold days.
to check it out, try to start the car with jumper cables, but make sure they are good ones, not just some crap for a dollar.

besides, how old is your battery?

About 4 weeks old. The old one was 60 ah but i've put a 74ah into it now.
The old battery wasnt really that bad. It would turn it over quite a bit before giving up the ghost. I changed it because i'd read somewhere about the 300rpm just to make sure that it was ok. With the old battery, the problem was more or less the same. It started eventually.
I invested in a set of good leads for the exact reason you mention. Trying to jump it with the cheap ones was no use.

If it's cold tomorrow morning, I'll put leads on it first attempt and try to start it to see if theres any improvement in how it starts. At least now I know I'll get it started by leaving the ignition on longer. I'll let you know how I go.

Thank you, i appreciate the help.

OK
I appologise, ATF4 is proper fluid for your gearbox. so, sticky gears can be from bad clutch.
and the clutch....it doesnt say, but it looks like it can be both cabel or hydraulic
http://www.imagesforme.com/thumb/thumb_f29a15a9.jpg
I'm not sure, but you should be, once you lift the hood.

as for starting, try with 2 batteries tomorrow.
after all, it's not so much trouble if you have to wait 10 secs longer for a first start. if it really bothers you, try the following.
get a good meter and measure how much current is drawn in the morning. separatly for pick up pump (at the relay) and separatly for glow plugs. maybe you have a "leak" somewhere.

Just to update, been busy with work and never got the chance on a really cold morning. Now the temperatures up a bit it's not as noticeable. It's now MOT time so that's the priority for now.
As you say, it's starting if I wait longer so it'll probably take a back seat till next winter lol.
Thanks again for your help.

Scotsman did you ever get to the bottom of the white smoke issue you had in 2010

Was just reading this thread and think there is flaws in it. As for the loss in compression in one of the cylinders I would go for a burnt valve rather than piston rings as these are more reliable. White smoke on starting definitely diesel not igniting properly due to heater plugs. Then the one that allways comes up on here under different faults, the battery. You need a good battery to make it start as forby power going to the starter there is other electrics that need that 12+Volts or starting will be troublesome.
As too the starter, how do you know your starter is doing its job right. I bring this up because my starter just gave up the ghost at a Tes*o's a fortnight ago. It was up till then starting ok I thought. (Bit slow for Months take note". I replaced it with a secondhand one and sure enough what a Different on the speed it turned the engine.

I have 2 batteries for the GV an Optima red top and another fully charged in the boot just in case and white smoke always happens with either battery. Problem is embrassing in winter or when cold as its a cloud of white smoke. Car hesitates to start but always starts on the first atgempt. The rest of the day there is no white smoke at all. Just first time when I start it in the day

white smoke that make's your eyes sting on a diesel is a sign of unburnt fuel.

options are either correct amount amount of fuel is going into the cylinder but not all getting burnt - glowplugs, compression, injection pattern etc. or there is excess fuel in the cylinder first thing in the morning - dripping injector(s).

If the white smoke doesn't make your eyes sting then it's probably steam.

Richard