2.8CRD Glow Plugs
 

I've been getting a tough time starting since the weather got colder here (Winter in the UK, so still not mega-cold conditions, down to around 0oC was as bad as it got so far). So I suspect one or two glow plugs have failed making it hard work to start (Turning over a few times and starting on a bit of white smoke).

So today I checked the system out, tested the relay first as that's nice and easy at the front of the engine bay, all OK there (For reference I used a multimeter to test continuity between the terminals when 12v was applied to the coil terminals).
So went on to test the glow plugs. Who on earth designed where they go on these 2.8CRD engines! Counting from the left of the block, plug 1 is behind the alternator, so couldn't even get to the lead to take it off and test resistance. Plug two is behind the power steering fluid bottle, plug three is behind a metal intake/exhaust (can't remember which) mounting and plug 4 is probably the easiest behind the sensor.

Anyway, I tested the three I could get to reasonably easily, and all three are totally open circuit! (Testing resistance against the chassis and the tip of the plug) So no wonder it's struggling to start.
(I also did a further test on one of them using my current sensing meter, lead to battery +ve and then to the tip of the glow plug to see if it pulled any current. Not a thing!)

Going to order some glow plugs and set to changing them probably next weekend. Any tips or hints? Looks reasonably straight forward once I've gained access to them. Plug 3 looks like if I loosen the metal intake it'll split and the split in the middle should give me enough room to fit the socket inbetween and get at it!
Probably an easy one to you seasoned professionals but just the awkward positions of them amazed me. I'll probably leave the one behind the alternator as that'll just be a challenge too far!

You sure the white smoke is not coolant due to headgasket leak?

Reasonably sure, I do have a water leak at the moment (Looks like at the left corner of the radiator, the seam is leaking) but don't think it's gasket. White smoke is just when initial starting, at heavy load, kickdown, etc don't get any. Also it's just a small puff at first start when very cold, if it's warm it seems all fine, so suspicion isn't head gasket, at least not at the moment!

Planning on doing the plugs next weekend as I know they need doing, then need to either get it in or get a new radiator and change that before anything else I guess.

CRD's with a good battery are usually good starters in spite of glow plugs. A battery is a 100% check for the earthed plug itself varying between red-tip of tip only 50% and red-most of tip 100% efficient. Ditto the same glow test between terminal and tip for circuitry continuity and relay switching. At the moment you seem to be saying there's no voltage at the plug tip are you ?
http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/ta...-11_080519.png

Thanks for the diagram QinteQ, that confirms the relay I tested was the right one and was fine.

I've not tested the socket for voltage at ignition on, I've tested the glow plugs themselves in-situ and get totally open circuit (Between chassis and the glow plug tip itself) so looks like the plugs are completely open, no resistance so think they're shot.

*edit* Ah, I just spotted where I was a bit vague:

What I meant there is I tried to power the glow plug manually by jumping from the +ve on the battery straight to the actual tip of the glow plug (i.e. bypass the car relays, wiring, etc) and test what current draw it pulled using my meter. It didn't pull a thing which makes me conclude it was a shot plug.

And yes, I guess they are good starters regardless of plugs as the way mine are looking, all 4 have given up over time (Remember, I've only had this GV about a year and it's past ownership haven't been good on replacing/maintaining)

on the top of the triangular metal plate above the alternator there is the cabling and a nice connector for the glowplugs (square 4 pin) which makes a good point for initial testing.

Regards
Richard

Voltage counts, old school would be a direct voltage, these days mucho potential for other control bits to interfere so I suspect No1 is somehow causing the other 3 to read as open circuit by not opening a ground circuit - PCM/ECM finds no feed shuts of ground ? [a guess] go voltage IGN and forget the DVOM for the minute.

I know one plug never gets changed but dig out any and test #4 then any others you get get at. As for the one that no one wants to do I've never done them on a GV but many have reported a 1/4 drive and wobble end works with perseverance. If any single one tests ok with voltage and earth applied direct [see mage below] then the No1 is going to have to come out like it or not and be subject to the same test. Best of luck.

Amount of red tip http://www.obd-codes.com/images/glow-plug.jpg

Did you only check continuity on the relay , remember to check volt (power supply) the fuse might be blown.

Glowlight in dash is still working if glowplug fuse is blown !.

And it's quit easy to remove alternator to get access to no.1 plug.

∀ndy, two or four ... all gone ... simultaneously is a long shot as was my #7 'open circuit' theory. What you need is a confirmation that a glow plug does not glow. Take any one out of circuit and apply a jumper lead each to the 18mm threaded top and M14 threaded body

Is the glow plug relay on 2.5crd 2001 model meant to be grey or black? Does anyone have the right part number? Mine is a black one and a few articles i have read all say grey. I am beginning to suscpect its wrong relay

On my one which is grey the numbers atop it are 05293163AA. Below that 21911C. Then below that Made in Canada ? !..Wow never knew anything was made in Canada but Snow.

And these numbers are same as 2004 car parts catalogue.
OOps my car 2003 2.5CRD LTD..

Mine is black so i suspect the person who owned it before put same relay as the fan relays and that might explain the white smoke :mad:

∀ndy, what does your 'key dance' give you ? I'd expect at least a P0380 or a P0381 on bog standard ODB's.

Glowplug relay
 

Well if the socket fits on relay I think it's okay , you could try messure with a clamp Amp.meter to see the current, Each glowplug draw around 15-20 Amps.if I remember correct. High Amp.(20A) from cold & a bit lower when hot(15A).

70% of auto electrical fails only show when you got load on the harness.Typical fail could be broken wire , corrode socket or broken isolation with a corrode wire. Bad earth conection. You can messure with a volt meter and you think it's okay but with load on the harness the volt will drop.Messure the current and you know for sure .

If you get around it , try disconnect battery and turn fuse box upside down and look at all the connectors . I have seen a few where connectors was corroded and had a lot of strange errors.

RG diesel version is also common to faults in harness in engine bay becourse of vibrations it can take hours to split up the harness to finde the broken wire.

And the 2.8CRD got the transmission box out in the left fender and thay corrode away like a painkiller in a glass of water.

My relay is grey, and checked that first, easiest part to check, and in testing I took it out, applied 12v to the coil terminals and passed load through the switched contacts, that way you can be sure it's not corroded, etc.

QinteQ, good point on the codes, just did the dance and only have P0100 showing up (MAF error?) and yep as you say I'd expect a P code from the plugs, however all my electrical tests now show the glow plugs aren't working at all (plugs rather than wiring or ign trigger), so I've ordered some and going to change them probably this weekend.

Ok ∀ndy lad, I hope the 'offline' tests were correct and the new set sort out your starting. Best of luck.

Success!

Spent a bit of time yesterday and today and managed to replace 3 out of 4 plugs so far (The one behind the alternator I've not managed to yet, will need a flexi to get that out).

QinteQ, it's starting a treat now even with only 3 out of 4, no huge cloud of smoke. And yep, all four plugs were completely dead, so the electrical test of checking resistance on the tip of the plug to ground whilst still in the block is a decent test, did the job!

If anyone wants it, i've done a basic video on what I did to replace them. Feel free to drop comments or laughter at my lack of mechanical prowess!

Just shows to be what I've always said is the truth. Want it done right - do it your self. There's loads of anecdotal evidence to say that fitters and mechanics never test or change the hard to get at one .. .. even when you have asked for and paid for four.

Good man Andy, they are good cars, get it right and it will look after you.

Well don Andy ! Glowplugs is a service part like brakepads :)

Beautiful. Is the 2.5 engine simiar to the 2.8 and will glow plugs be in similar places. Whats the name of your multimeter? I bought 1 last year but apparently it no good for car work

How about you make a vid for injectors ? Please sir

This is what I have

When I had the 2.5, the glow plugs were in the same position and were testable the same way.
A basic multimeter will let you test most stuff, here's one for £3.11.

Digital Multimeter LCD Display AC DC Volt Amp Ohm Transistor Tester DT-830B | eBay

Having removed a few injectors in my time, you need a 10mm socket to remove the clamp bolt, an injector removal tool, and most likely a 2ft breaker bar and a 30mm socket. A ratchet and 30mm socket works with a scaffold pole as well.

Thanks for the multimeter link. The reason I wanted a video is because I am nog sure which are the injectors you see. Everything I now know about cars has been through this and mercedes forum and I am still learning. Ordering multimeter now

Measuring by calculating the magnetic field strength around a wire needs the wire to be in very close proximity to the cable, this 'hall effect' type meter is not particularly accurate but good enough for most non-low current [example - parasympathetic loss] 12v DC purposes. You don't need a fancy autoranging meter a LidL: £5 job will do just as good for these purposes.

It might take a wee while as it comes from China, but well worth having. (QinteQ has linked to the same metre from Amazon, might be a quicker option).
I'll be testing the glow plugs over the next day or two, whilst the engine covers off, I'll take a couple of pictures and put a description together. It's quite straightforward and you would have no problem doing it if you want them out.
One thing, if you ever take them out, most places (chrysler included when I asked) only mention a copper washer on the bottom of the injectors. There's also an O-ring on them that you would be better replacing if you pulled them too.

Keep an eye on LidL or Aldi, they sell at £5 when in stock, job dome !

Is that on the 2.5 Scotsman4th? No such thing I found on the 2.8CRD, and am not sure what the purpose would be?

darkcild101: The injectors shouldn't be totally different, take top cover off and spongy cover, should start to see what you're working with, but take the correct precautions to remove pressure, etc. But not something I've got planned, at least not at the moment! If I do, you know where i'll post the info ;-)

I read somewhere yesterday on internet that its the same injectors on 2.5 & 2.8CRD engines. As too the copper washers on the Injectors they should be annealed before using so the injector face bites into the soft copper as its tightened down. Easy to test if its annealed as it bends easy.

Chrysler Grand Voyager 2.8 Crd Diesel Injector WITH 30 DAY WARRANTY 2004-2008 | eBay

You can see the o-ring about an inch and a half above where the copper washer would sit.

Ah, sorry my bad, I was referring to glow plugs, didn't realise you meant the injectors! Ta for the ref pic though, makes sense now.

What symptoms would you get with bad injectors?

It was leaking injectors I had, fumes inside the cabin and black buildup round the offending injectors.

Think we got crossed over when DC had asked about an injector video.

Injectors 2.5 vs. 2.8CRD
 

Injectors and HP pump is equal on both engines. I guess glowplugs and fuel rail also is the same.