Airbag light - seatbelt?
 

Hi all,

Having been using my wife's car for the past 4 days, the Chrysler was sat on the driveway, went to use it today and airbag light is staying on.

When I bought the car it had the airbag light on and steering controls were faulty, so the leaf/clock spring was replaced and all was fine, so I don't believe it's the leaf/clock spring, the cruise controls still work also, so makes me think that less.

So, gone looking under the seats and connectors look fine, next step will be to disconnect and reconnect all of them to check for any problems.

However, I just noticed the driver side seat-belt socket (is that what it's called?) is hanging out, not sat snug into it's plastic retainer and I'm wondering if this could be the culprit (Is this part of the seat-belt pre-tensioner/airbag trigger, or is that in the reel part of the seat belt?)

See the photo to show you what I found:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-O...o/IMAG0673.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-z...o/IMAG0672.jpg

Or am I barking up the wrong tree there. I've also only got the OBD 2 reader, haven't got an SRS reader (yet! I'm tempted to buy one for £15 and read the code).

I did the key-dance and nothing came up (other than P1130 as usual!)

Cheers as always folks.

Regarding the mat inside the seat squab, there may be a bypass plug available that fools the SFS into thinking all is ok as it contains a little resistor pack. I found something relating to this on Fleebay that casts about £15 compared to over £100 which would also need a seat stripdown. Be interesting to know if it works.

Ta m8, that's gonna be my next few tests to be honest, as I've probably got the right resistor combination in my parts drawers (electrician minded rather than mechanical!).

So next steps may be to disconnect seat sensors and test resistance nt and compare them, it'll at least help me eliminate the seats from my tests.

I've checked connectors and cables and can't see any damages wiring which appears common. Also checked and the seat belt detonators look intact.

Anyone in the North-East with an srs/air-bag diagnostics tool care to lend a hand? There's a Lemon top up for grabs ;-)

I'm in King Oswy every Wednesday @ my bro's let me know before midnight here and I'll post where and when - I don't do PM's Andy lad. Buckshee scan clear and re-scan .. .. no lemon top required.

In my 2002 GV the airbaglight comes on occasionally but goes away immediately when I shake the steering wheel a little. The same time horn and cruise control work flawless..

Statistically, the most common cause of airbag tell-tale is a blown pretensioner squib. This makes the seatbelt socket some 4" or so shorter than the rest. I had this problem on an S-type Jag. in the passenger seatbelt.
The firing element for the squib was 2ohm, and it needs to be pretty exact. I fooled the micro by putting a 2R2 half watt resistor in place of the blown squib's element. The micro fires the squib by discharging a capacitor into it if it detects more than a pre-programmed deceleration from a inertia-type sensor, and heavy braking WILL fire it, as is the intention. As we all know, the car will not pass the MOT if there is/are tell-tales illuminated after engine has started.
The circuit is simple, only two wires to the firing element. I fixed mine with a little choc-bloc and a tie wrap holding it down to a nearby convenient point. You can check if the firing element is o/c with any meter, a DVM on ohms scale is fine. The current from the DVM is too small to fire the squib, or anywhere near. Find the right resistance by measuring one of the others.
Quod erat desperandum.

Leedsman.

Thanks all.

Typically, this morning taking the mrs to work, no light, so either I've waggled a wire back into place or it's done it itself.
(Though yesterday nobody was sat in passenger seat, so that could be a theory on the seat sensor for passenger side)

So for now, thanks, QinteQ cheers for the kind offer, if it re-offends then might take you up on that offer.

Leedsman, on the seat-belt pre-tensioner, the two seat-belts are at the same height, and I can't see any signs of either firing, so I'm discounting that for now, the strange position of the belt was just because the plastic cover had dropped down.

Will wait for it to come back on (I'm not daft enough to think that'll be it!).

I'm there every Wed my friend. Under passenger seat is always a good starter~for~ten most manufacturers Merc Fiat etc put the connector under the NSF seat - the slide and thump forward and slide and thump back of a manual seat can often shake the connector slightly slack.

Well, the light has come back on again, and this time it seems to be staying.

Have checked under passenger seat, connectors reseated, etc. No difference. Haven't tried the same under drivers seat.

QinteQ, might take you up on that offer if you can please, would be good to get the codes read and see what it is thats triggering the light rather than guessing. Let me know if you're able.

Cheers,
Andy

No probs M8 turn into Gibson Grove off King Oswy, then left at the tee junction, then follow road round and park in the garages after 3.30pm Wed. Blow horn I'll see / hear you.

Spot on, you're a gent. See you then (be about 5pm when I've escaped from work if thats ok?)

I leave @ 6:15pm Andy lad. and you are more than welcome.

3.2 AIRBAG SYSTEM/OCCUPANT RESTRAINT CONTROLLER SYSTEM AND OCCUPANT CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM

The Airbag System contains the following components: Occupant Restraint controller (ORC), Airbag Warning Indicator, Clockspring, Driver and Passenger dual squib Airbags, Driver and Passenger Seat belt Tensioner (SBT), Driver and Passenger Hall-effect Seat Belt Buckle Switches (SBS), Left and Right Side Curtain Airbags, and Front and Side Impact Sensors. The ORC also monitors the Occupant Classification System (OCS) for the presence of a passenger in the front outer seat.

The Occupant Classification System contains the following components: Occupant Classification Module (OCM), Bladder and Sensor, Belt Tension Sensor, and Passenger Airbag off Indicator. The Occupant Restraint Controller (ORC) supports staged airbag deployment and remote impact sensing. Staged deployment is the ability to trigger airbag system squib inflators individually as needed to provide the appropriate restraint for the severity of the impact. The ORC has four major functions: PCI Bus communications, onboard diagnostics, impact sensing, and component deployment. The ORC also contains an energy-storage capacitor. This capacitor stores enough electrical energy to deploy the front airbag components for two seconds following a battery disconnect or failure during an impact. The ORC is secured to the floor panel transmission tunnel below the instrument panel inside the vehicle. The ORC cannot be repaired or adjusted. The ORC sends and/or receives PCI Bus messages with the Instrument Cluster (MIC), Body Control Module (BCM), and Powertrain Control Module (PCM). Diagnostic trouble codes will be set if the communication with these modules is lost or contains invalid information.

The microprocessor in the ORC monitors the front impact sensor signals and the airbag system electrical circuits to determine the system readiness. If the ORC detects a monitored system fault, it sends a message to the nstrument cluster via PCI bus to turn on the Airbag Warning Indicator. The ORC can set both active and stored diagnostic trouble codes to aid in diagnosing system problems. See DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES in this section. The ORC uses an internal accelerometer, twofront sensors and six side impact sensors, to sense the rate of vehicle deceleration and provide verification of the direction and severity of an impact. A pre-programmed decision algorithm in the ORC microprocessor determines when the deceleration rate is severe enough to require airbag system protection. The ORC also uses the driver and passenger seat belt switch status (buckled or unbuckled) to determine the level of driver airbag deployment, low medium or high. When the programmed conditions are met, the ORC sends an electrical signal to deploy the appropriate airbag system components.

3.2.4 SEAT BELT TENSIONER (SBT)

The driver and passenger seat belt (buckle) tensioners are mounted to the inboard side of the front seats. The seat belt buckle and seat belt switch are connected directly to the seat belt tensioner cable. At the onset of an impact event the ORC uses the seat belt tensioner to rapidly retract the seat belt buckles. With the slack removed, the occupant’s forward motion in an impact will be reduced as will the likelihood of contacting interior components. The seat belt tensioner cannot be repaired, if damaged or defective it must be replaced. The ORC continously monitors the resistance of the seat belt tensioner circuits for open and shorted conditions.

3.2.5 SEAT BELT SWITCHES (SBS)

The hall-effect driver and passenger seat belt switches provide the seat belt status, buckled or unbuckled, via hardwired inputs to the ORC. If the seat belt switch is damaged or defective the seat belt tensioner must be replaced. The ORC continuously monitors the seat belt switch circuits for open and shorted conditions.

Search the 2005-RG-Body.pdf workshop manual for occurrences of "SEAT BELT TENSIONER" if you mess with the Seat Belt Tensioner connector or circuits make sure you have disconnected the battery for 15 minutes before you begin. All the ACM tests are about a quarter into the pdf Andy. Connector pinouts are near the end.

As far as I'm aware our GV's use the ball bearing bullets system which is just a bit of bent pipe filled with ball bearings, a gas is exploded forcing the ball bearings down the pipe as in the above graphic which winds the seat belt tight.

- tfb have you had a pre-tensioner in bits ?

http://www.vinastarmotors.com.vn/images/srs_h3.gif

You sir are an absolute gent, thank you once again for doing the diagnostics and for your spot on help, appreciate that.

Planning on this weekend having a quiet tinker, just to get access to the right parts and have a look around, figure what parts I'm needing, etc.
As I do I'll take photos and post them up so in future we've got them documented.

Cheers,
Andy

Andy,

I still think its our favourite Chrysler wiring issues rather than for example parts and that its pre-tensioner circuit rather than clock-spring and in any case the pre-tensioner should be eliminated first from the menu of possibilities. BTW all the info including the test [ing] of the various parts is in that specific pdf I referred you to, including the clock-spring in the unlikely event you do need to go there.

You shouldn't in diagnostic terms need parts, I've never heard of a black tube pellet going [except a car accident] on any car ever and if ever it did I'm sure you could get one from a scrappy. I always go wiring wiring wiring. Best of luck - if you mess - and you will - with wiring and create codes you know where I will be on Wed, and please do read that blummin pdf before you mess with exploding bags / belts - !

The black tube on the youtube :

not yet played with a pre-tensioner...had lots of fun blowing up airbags though ;)

Regards
Richard

I've never managed by accident or intent, I'm even more afraid of airbags than I am of any my ex wives - I'm absolutely terrified of the 'sodddin things. Thanks for your input Richie.

Thanks again chaps.

I had a few mins sat in the car earlier on, so had a look, and I've at least spotted the pre tensioner in my model, looks like it is on the driver seat. The image below is what I found underneath the seat, and that's the explosive tube, so looking like rather than the ball bearing method I'm suspecting it's this one, so that's going to be my first place to test/check.
(Thinking again, my car was in the garage getting work done and they'd moved the driver seat. So that further gives weight to the theory of dodgy wiring/cable/connector)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rE...=w1161-h656-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Zr...Q=w371-h656-no

And comparing that with a listing I found on ebay, it matches the mechanics I can see:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chrysler-V...item2c872e1154

So I've got somewhere to start, hopefully I'll have some time tomorrow whilst mrs is at work and kids are out and I'll take a closer look at connectors, etc. (Have also read up on safety on these things, 15 minutes with ignition off, etc to be safe) See if it has indeed blown, or if it's just a bad connection somewhere causing it to error.

Will take more pics and document as I go along.

If that's what's underneath my seat I think I'd rather have Mice...I'll even feed them...

Haha, yeah nice to think how many explosives we have sat around us.

On even better news, before I got in just now to pick Mrs up from work I did the wonderful Chrysler wire shuffle (waggle all wires under seat and push connectors in) and airbag light has gone out so looks like it is the famous wiring!

- good nearly always is - glad it worked for you
- don't forget the bladder scales under your seat