surging, stuttering, and dying...
 

i have a serious problem with my 03 town and country. drove it 3 hrs to the beach this weekend, and upon arrival at our hotel, it dies on me when i was pulling into the parking spot. tried to restart, but nothing. not even a click. then about 2 minutes later, it started up fine, just like always, and i let it run. about a minute into the run, it dies again. and again, when i try to restart it, it wont crank, or let me do anything. let it sit for a couple minutes, and it fires right up! any ideas what to check or a route to go with this problem? im seriously upset right now, since i had to have it towed 3 hrs away!! please help.

i should have also mentioned that on the way there, i was at highway speed, and it felt like it died but then it took right off again. im not sure if the engine died or if it just shifted really hard, but it was enough to make me go "what the *&%$!!". does anyone have any idea where EXACTLY the eatx safety shutdown relay gets its signal and how i would correct it? i know it has to do with the transmission, but thats it. do you download faults out of the transmission just like you do with the engine?? thanks again.

as of right now u need to keep it KISS Keep It Simple Stupid do u have any codes in the computer? do the key one key of trick to see if any come up on the display then check for spark and fuel see which one is missing when it wont start.

i did check the codes with the ignition, on-off-on-off-on, there were none stored. when it starts, it runs like a top. but when it dies after a couple minutes of running, and i try to restart it, it wont even crank for a couple minutes. sometimes these time values are longer or shorter, but the results are always the same. it seems like there is something just cutting it out as a safety feature, and then it resets itself after a time period?

do u have a red dot on the dash lite up when it wont start?

im not aware of any red dot, however ill try it in a bit and see. where would this dot be if i look for it? on the dash itself or on the instrument cluster?

i tried to start again tonight, and same thing...absolutely nothing. no cranking, no starting of any kind, yet all the lights on the dash came on like normal, and the battery voltage is 12.66 vdc. there was no red dot/light that came on at all. with all the similar posts that i have read on this problem, it seems as though every dealer goes right to the computer. i dont believe this is the problem, simply because everyone that sunk that money into a computer, still had the problem afterward. i am going to jack it up, pull off the inner access panels from the wheel wells, and start looking for a shorted/burnt wiring harness. i could start throwing parts at it, but im not doing that till i have ruled out a bad harness or wire somewhere. am i in the ballpark at least?

Car died and won't crank.....start pulling fuses and looking..all of them. What CT meant about the light was SKIM module...Red dot may be on it may not be if the module is dead. Get a diag done anyway because you won't be able to program it yourself if that's what it is. I never go right to the PCM. That would be stupid...lol but I will tell you there are some sorry @ss dealers out there. Chrysler lost a buttload of good techs at their dealers after the bankruptsy.

i thank you all for doing what you can over the internet!! ive been an hvac tech in form or fashion for the last 15 or so years, and i know how tough it is to help someone diagnose something over the phone or internet, so thank you guys. i did get ahold of a scanner last night after i tried starting it. came up with code P888 and P725....im thinking its going to be a harness or loose/corroded/broken wire(s).

btw, those codes never showed up with the on off on method....thanks chrysler!!

P0888-RELAY OUTPUT ALWAYS OFF
P0725-ENGINE SPEED SENSOR CIRCUIT

P0888-RELAY OUTPUT ALWAYS OFF
When Monitored: Continuously
Set Condition: This DTC is set when less than 3 volts are present at the Transmission
Control Relay output circuits at the Transmission Control Module (TCM) when the TCM
is energizing the relay. Note: Due to the integration of the Powertrain and Transmission
Control Modules, the transmission part of the PCM has its own specific power and ground
circuits.
POSSIBLE CAUSES
FUSED B+ CIRCUIT OPEN
TRANSMISSION CONTROL RELAY OUTPUT CIRCUIT OPEN
TRANSMISSION CONTROL RELAY CONTROL CIRCUIT OPEN
TRANSMISSION CONTROL RELAY GROUND CIRCUIT OPEN
TRANSMISSION CONTROL RELAY STUCK OPEN
TRANSMISSION CONTROL RELAY CONTROL CIRCUIT SHORT TO GROUND
TRANSMISSION CONTROL RELAY OUTPUT CIRCUIT SHORT TO GROUND
POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE
INTERMITTENT WIRING AND CONNECTORS

in the process now of cleaning battery terminals/posts, grounds, and looking at wire harnesses for chafing and damage. havent really seen anything that jumps out at me yet, but im just now getting dirty... i see 3 different sensors on the tranny now that i have the battery and pan out of the way, but i dont know which ones are which. there is one on the front/right side of the tranny as you look at it from the front of the vehicle, one on the front/middle, and kind of towards the back side/top/left side. how can i tell which ones are which? is there a parts breakdown anywhere i can look at?

The one under the cooler lines in the input speed, the one around to the side is output speed.

there are no wire diagrams for the inside of computers it is a Proprietary system

ok, does the 3.3L have a camshaft position sensor? i found the crank sensor, but not sure about the cam sensor?

Just below where the upper rad hose goes into the engine. Inside the top of the timing cover.

ok, found it. replaced both the crank and cam sensor. still no go. will not even crank. good battery, good power everywhere till it gets to the pcm, but the pcm will not give the circuits a ground. at this point i am really looking at replacing it. i didnt want to, but i dont know where else to go with it. the only other thing i can think of would be the theft deterrent system, but i know nothing about that. im at a loss.

plus i only have a three function FOB, so i dont think i have an actual security system. no red light either. is this a reasonable assumption and if so, then can we rule that out of the scenario?

You're going to need some live in person help on this one. Take it in to the dealer for a diag.

ok, i agree on this one. i do want to thank everyone who offered their suggestions!! i will post the fix on here once i have one. this has been a very trying week!!

well, i have had a mechanic looking at this for the past 3 weeks or so. he cannot find anything. he thinks that one of the two sensors actually fixed it, but there is no way to know until we put it all back together and drive it around for awhile. he says that the pcm takes awhile to "learn" the new sensors?? does this sound right?? i can understand the pcm "learning" the driving conditions, but learning the sensors??

Absolute rubbish. You can manually relearn cam/crank position with a scan tool but it's a forced learn not a automatic learn.

Put what back together??

he had the dash apart under the steering column to check the ignition switch, and who knows what else. the problem is that he cant get it to fail now, and neither could i the last couple days it was here with me before he took it. i just know that as soon as my wife gets it back and starts driving it around, itll leave her stranded again.....i dont believe this is a "fixed" vehicle.

Did you find out what the problem is? I am having similar problem with my 1999 Town & Country Limited 3.8L. Taken it to two different mechanics so far. At first I thought it was my transmission slipping, but both mechanics say they don't think it's a tranny problem. I tried hard to think what it could possibly be, but the only thing I had done recently was put in a brand new battery, like within a couple of weeks of this happening. I was driving to pick up my daughter from dance class, on dreaded 316 in Lawrenceville, and it seemed like it wasn't getting enought gas going up hills (felt like it was losing power at around 45-50 MHP a kind of shudder or slip or two...) I took it home and my husband change tranny fluid with ATF-4 three times, and the third time is when I noticed I had to press harder on excellerator before it responded, and then it would shudder at a stop (never cut off though) The only dealer with a good tech near me is in Winder, on Atlanta Hwy. Please let me know if you find a fix. I would be very gratefull. Kind regards, Gina.

Gina, i dont think we have the same problem. mine actually did do the stutter thing while driving, but that wasnt the biggest problem. my problem is that it wouldnt start, and when it did, it would die a few seconds later. i wish i had a good answer for you though. i messed with it for a couple weeks off and on. i replaced the crank sensor and cam sensor, because i read a few posts that sort of suggested that could cause it. after really getting into it i found that the pcm was not applying a ground for the different systems that run through it (i.e. start relay, fuel pump relay, etc.). my question was, and still is: would a safety circuit within the pcm disable the entire thing if there was a specific component that was faulty somewhere in the system, or do i just assume a bad pcm?? my wife works for a company that has a full time mechanic for the semis they own, and he has had it for about 4 weeks now. he cant seem to find anything wrong, because 2 days before they took it to look at it, i went out and tried to start it, and it worked. it started up just fine, like nothing was ever wrong with it, and it has started up ever since then just fine. it just makes me nervous. there was no definite fix for it, and i dont trust it with my wife and kids riding around in it. i know they will get stranded in the thing again. so im sorry that i cant answer your question, but mine is still kind of a mystery as well. my wife is picking the van back up from her work today, so we'll see.....??? :(
i wish you all the best luck in the world with your situation. i know the helpless feeling you get when your car clunks out on you. the best advice i can give at this very minute (and i know you wont want to hear this) is trade that piece of *&^* in on something OTHER than chrysler!! and im not being a smart @ss, im very serious about that. if we were in a financial position to do that, i would have done it long ago. best wishes......

well, had the van back for 2 days, and its doing the same thing. the mechanic said it was a bad starter.........HA! what a hack! there isnt any voltaget even getting that far! im going to replace the pcm and see what happens. without any real schematic to go on for the pcm, it is the only thing i can go on. heres mud in yer eye!!

for anyone interested in hearing the status of my problem, here goes...
after doing some more testing, i finally decided to buy a PCM for it. it was the only thing i could think of that made sense (with my limited number of schematics and diagrams). i bought a used one from advance auto parts, through their "advance salvage" division. i didnt know what this was at first, but it turns out that its basically what it says it is. it is a used part, that advance auto parts evidently pull off a salvage vehicle and sell to you. i dont know if these parts ever got tested or anything...i dunno? but i will say....happily....that the pcm has fixed the problem!!! we have been driving it around for over a week now without so much as a hiccup. AND....contrary to what i have read, we did NOT need to get it re-flashed at the dealership. now, if i had bought a brand new one, then i could understand having to do that, but according to advance auto parts, there was only one PCM made for my model year of van (not sure if i believe this or not tho). but if this is true, then it makes sense why we didnt have to have it re-flashed. anyway, the part cost 270 bucks as opposed to about 700 from the dealership for a new one. now there is no warranty with this part, obviously, but i figure i can go through one more used one and still be in it for less money than one new one!! anyway, i just wanted to let everyone know what fixed it, since you read so many posts on different forums that never actually tell you what fixed it. its hard to find anyone out there including dealers that know what theyre talking about, and who are honest, and that dont charge you an outrageous amount of money!! ....good luck to all in saving your hard earned money and fixing it yourself!!

i know this is an old post, but i need would like to follow up with it. Is the van still working? I am having this exact same issues. no start, not even cranking. Intermittent starting vehicle will shut off at random, start at random. sounds like exact same issue. when i do the on off with the key all it says is done. i took it to autozone and i get 2 codes one is like yours p0725 and i also get p0700. I replaced the crankshaft position sensor and still get the same codes and still have the same issues. so if you are still driving the van would love to hear about it. its becoming a pain. thank you so much for your time. hope to hear from you soon!

yes, the van is still going with no other issues from that particular system. We have been driving it for over a year now. The pcm definitely was the problem. If u can find the diagram for the pcm, then u can test the grounds for the fuel pump, starter, etc. When u probe the grounds for these different systems, they might all of a sudden work while its being probed, since you are basically providing a direct ground for it, so if that happens, that's good. Then u will know the pcm is failing to provide a ground on its own. Best wishes. Let me know if I can be of any more help. I'll do what I can for you. Where are u located?

Ok, im pretty sure that the starter and gas pump are functional. I had a friend come over and he got the starter grounded and it cranked and cranked everytime. Not too sure about the gas pump but i assume it is also working because the van will sometimes start and will drive fine. Then all of a sudden i will turn the ignition off leave it off for like 10 minutes go back and nothing...not even a crank of the starter just all the lights and nothing more. I am located in san antonio, tx. Any other suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again for the reply.

Why not try the bog-standard things like slightly loose batt. terminals, engine ground strap etc. I say this because you apparently couldn't crank the engine one time. Easy to do, well known causers of wierd problems. Only needs a spanner/wrench.
Leedsman.

I know that this was a couple of years ago, but I just wanted to say that we discovered the problem with my T&C Limited. It was silly really....I needed new spark plugs. It took care of the problem immediately. I am still driving it, and it's got 268,000 miles on the clock. Just replaced the fan motor sensor ($20) as it would only run on HIGH. All back to normal now. I hope to get 300,000 out of this van if I'm lucky (I always change oil every 3,000 miles). I would buy another one tomorrow if I had the money, but I am out of work at the moment, it's got to last a little while longer.

Moral of the event, -- look after routine maintenance. And thanks for reporting solution because this website is a repositary of solved problems which may be of great use to others, saving lots of money and time.

Leedsman.