I don't know where to begin.

Even though your aftermarket seal wasn't OEM, I somehow doubt that there was anything wrong with it. I don't know Chrysler engines, so I can't comment on the probability of crank end play pushing it out, but the way to eliminate that question is to just test it as you have been told.

There is no reason to use silicone sealant on a seal, and there are a few BIG reasons NEVER to use it on a gasket (when still not set up, it is a great lubricant and you will extrude gaskets - sometimes to the point of failure).

A piece of exhaust pipe is NOT a seal installation tool (this is where I suspect you went most wrong).

So, if you want your engine to work and not leak, please take the advice given by the real pros above, read a service manual CAREFULLY and use the right tools and procedures. Or just hire someone who will.

 

Why not, it works perfectly to install a slit in the lip of the seal.....

Truthfully, I somehow missed that on the first trip around....It would have explained everything....

A rule I have lived by, from a wise old man, If you need RTV to seal an existing gasket......
Something is wrong...

If the seal didnt fit snugly into the cover, ...
1---its wrong...
2 it has been damaged
3 the cover is distorted

Or....Something pushed it out...

 

you dont know where to begin?!
the moog seal designer didnt know where to begin either..!

the seal was not the right fit.
when i was putting it in, the inner lip was bending backwards because it didnt fit correctly.
after adjusting the seal and pushing it in, the bending backwards (and my pushing it in without seeing the problem) caused the inside seal to rip.

you dont yank on a crankshaft and expect the bearings or piston rods to not suffer any damage.
thats a stupid method that will lead to more problems if you bend something.

if you want to know if there is crankshaft play, you stick a motion sensor on the crankshaft and gather results, the compare the results to default results and look for any differences.

the harmonics at the end of the crankshaft, picked up by the motion device, is accurate enough to tell you which bearing is bad.. based on the pattern of decay.

you can seriously tell yourself that the old seal was fully seated (which i specifically said in a previous post) and then tell me that the new seal was pushed out.
a better approach could have been used to emphasize that i should be thankful that the rod bearings arent worn enough to cause the seal to never hold solid.
besides, the inside seal appears to be able to wiggle a little bit.. which would suffice to say that minor vibrations wouldnt bounce the seal until a hairline leak is started, which creates an even worse leak.

the inside of the inner seal has ribbons that promote a squeezing grip.
i dont see it as possible that some vibrations that could not be felt or seen is or was ever enough to make those ribs stop responding.

perhaps above all other things, i have been working with my hands since age 5.
i dont need you to tell me what is suitable to install the seal.
i'm not the idiot you portray.
but i will tell you quick and clearly.. using the special tool to install the seal will hide the seal as it is installed.
therefore you cannot see if the inner lip is being bent backwards.
this leads to installing a bad seal before you add the oil without ever realizing it until the oil is dripping from the seal.

you spend $80 on a tool that forces you to lose all common sense?
i wont be 'dealing' with a seal that doesnt fit properly the first time ever again.
since learning from the situation, if the seal gives me any grief.. it goes back to the store for a different name brand.

ridiculing me about the use of a tool is unwarranted and isnt requested.

i cant imagine how many people have spent money on that special tool and allowed the tool to cover the seal as it goes in.. those people probably went through more seals than i did.

and you are right.. there is 'no' reason to use silicone sealant on a seal.
but you didnt have the decency to use apostraphes to emphasize your point.
we live in a day and age where materials are heat activated and also where the material requires an extra mate to be chemically sound.

you speak of fear that the silicone sealant is going to bond with the edge of the seal and create a lubricant rather than a glue.
thats an opposing force that needs to be dealt with of the chemist who designed the seal.

not all sealants will bond correctly with the other mating surface.
but why bother going into a furious fight about glue and lubricants?
it was an improper 'casting' that caused a problem.
the other seal made by napa popped right in and hasnt had any drips.
i might not have known how easy the seal went in if i was using the special tool.

but again, if you think for a second that i would use a piece of exhaust pipe that had an edge sharp enough to cut the flimsy seal that i was dealing with.. you are out of context.
i was doing a repair, not a 'slice it with an exhaust pipe to beg for attention' procedure.

the real pros wouldnt be shoving their ego down my throat.. they would have told me clearly, and perhaps in more than one example, what simplicity and care is needed to remove the top radiator cover.. because that is all that i asked and all that i wanted.

you dont need me to say that cars change over the years and that renders their experience almost worthless.
i doubt that they could tell me how tight to tighten a bolt before the bolt snaps, because all things have changed.
unscrewing .. cleaning .. screwing new part on is almost enough for a 10 year old.
depending on how scared he/she is to hold onto the power tool (and if strong enough to keep the tool under control).

letting time pass you by on a website that responds as slow as this one is another issue entirely.

 

the outside of the seal didnt fit well into the cover.. but i thought it might be the nature of the seal needing an extra tight fit.
but after having looked at the way the oil pump works and seeing how flimsy and weak the inner seal was.. and after seeing how easy the other seal went in.. the seal was a bad design.
i could go on to say that maybe the seal expanded from sitting on the shelf too long.. but that doesnt provide good business when the product has little to no shelf life.
especially when i purchased the part from a repair store that generally keeps a load of parts on the shelf waiting to be purchased.

i dont know if you have to replace the seal when you remove the timing cover, but if anything goes wrong with the seal when removing the cover.. its a solid reason to have those seals on hand.
i see that there are timing gaskets that come with the seal as a kit.. but though, who wants to purchase a timing gasket when they dont need it?


i am quite disappointed to be on a chrysler forum requesting chrysler specific advice and didnt receive an answer to the question i was asking.. but instead was ridiculed and taken for a ride on my own expense.
nothing to be proud of there.

 

From Chrysler Service information.....

CHECKING CRANKSHAFT END PLAY
Using Dial Indicator C-3339 and Mounting Post L-4438, attach to front of engine, locating probe perpendicular on nose of crankshaft Checking Crankshaft End Play
Move crankshaft all the way to the rear of its travel.
Zero the dial indicator.
Move crankshaft all the way to the front and read the dial indicator. Refer to Crankshaft End Play Specification Chart

Now as stupid as I am , please explain how YOU would obtain the rear most and forward most positions?????

I didnt say anything about a Ten foot pole and a Gorilla to pull on it....I said a Prybar....pry it forward as far as you can, and pry it rearward as far as you can.....Which gets you the difference between Front most travel, and rear most travel.....

I will STATE AGAIN......If you can DAMAGE SOMETHING, by prying on a crank pulley...you have more problems to start with than a leaking seal.

As for Nothing to be proud of here........

There is no need for pride, when the person with the BROKEN car ,asking the questions, is Informing us that we are Stupid.

MY DEAR FRIEND......I replaced the seal in MY 300k mile motor LAst year....20 minutes of labor and 6 minutes at the Parts counter waiting for a seal..... I checked endplay in the Crank with My prybar in one hand, My sandwich in the other,Installed it with the Seal Installer Tool from the Tool room, While the radio was playing My favorite song..What a way to spend My lunch hour......And .......IT STILL ISNT LEAKING....30K later.....

Quite a feat for such an Incompetent ...Dont ya think??????...Arent you proud of me????

 

"was ridiculed and taken for a ride on my own expense."


this is life when u dont know what U are doing and get into **** expect this to happen.

 

crankshafts are ment to withstand being twisted.. not stretched from end to end.
piston rods are ment to withstand being compressed from top to bottom.. not to be bent diagnally.
i am VERY poor and dont want to take such a risk.

you said you are a mechanic.. not a chemist who designs metal.
even a metal fabricator will tell you, if you dont know the molecular structure of the metal you are dealing with.. its better to leave it alone or be prepared to pay for a new piece of metal after abusing the first piece to learn.

when you say 'get a prybar and pry it as far as you can.. i will point your attention to this picture:
http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/i...c883a959/l.jpg

and this picture:
http://a3.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/i...ddab67db/l.jpg

do you see the size of those muscles?
i have caused a lot of trouble because of tightening things too much.. or using sheer strength when i should have done it gently.

not only have i been warned from past experiences.. i dont know the metal to be taking a chance.

i had a $6 seal that needed replaced on a $50 per month budget.
some people put more money than that in their gas tank each week..!
i simply cannot start taking risks with my vehicle.

besides.. if the crankshaft does have some play from front to back.. that doesnt mean the crankshaft will move from front to back when the engine is running.
its by all means better to measure the vibrations of the crankshaft to determine if there is damaging harmonics.

if your crankshaft has front to back play that is causing rapid damage.. you will notice a loss of fuel economy at the least.
but perhaps you will also notice excessive vibration from the engine.

as it is.. i had to get a loan to buy a new headgasket set because my valve guides are causing the intake to drink oil.
and i need to take the heads off to clean the combustion chamber at the very least.
hopefully i will cure the sluggish performance that i have had and will have a headgasket that will withstand the boost that i wish to tap onto the intake.

and i am not talking about buying a $3,000 turbo or supercharger kit.
i am considering the use of an electric motor from a heavy duty router that spins at 30,000 rpm and balance the shaft onto a used turbo.
maybe i will use a heavy duty drill that allows me to put the turbo shaft into the drill chuck as an easy replacement when/if the motor dies.

my buddy keeps telling me 'its not the headgasket'
and i am going to take the heads off anyways to have a look at how clean the inside is.
i'm hoping to clean the top of the piston and wipe up all the oil that was spilling into the piston chambers.
its full of flem as far as i know.

so who wants to remind me to NOT clean behind the valves to keep them sealed.
since i have to remove the timing chain to replace the valve seals.. i might as well take the heads off and clean 'em up.
i plan on cleaning the injectors too to try and keep my fuel mileage up.

i used some seafoam to try and cleanup the injectors and combustion area.. and when i did, i swear i heard a piece of carbon fall and start to rattle for about five minutes.

once i do the headgasket and the valve seals.. i will check the compression again and hopefully i will have a gauge that will allow me to see if the valves and/or piston rings are slowly leaking.

see, some time after i have owned the car (6 months? 12 months?)
i was doing 30mph and stomped on the gas pedal.. the car almost chirped the tire as it down shifted.
the car has not sped up that fast since.

compared to all of the driving i did since then, it feels like that night had a 20 shot of nitrous.

when i test drove the car, it ran like a truck with the torque convertor locked.
i could feel every little movement of the gas pedal through the drivetrain and in my seat.

i am determined to realize if the engine is sound and if the computer is robbing me of precious horsepower.
i have had the car for about three going on four years.. and i did an acid flush of the oil system when i first had the oil changed.
i dont think some mediocre engine additive that helps the pistons seal is still in the engine.
just five months ago i chirped the tires shifting into 2nd gear.
and i did a compression test a couple months ago and they all read 150 psi
therefore i am determined to get all leaks stopped and stare at the software that controls the horsepower.
i'm not looking to bring it to the drag strip and check my quarter mile results.. i just want some solid acceleration in first and second gear.

i'd love to get a monster electric motor and hook it up to a turbo.. i can probably start out small.. just as long as i can turn the turbo on and make the blowoff motor whistle until i press on the gas pedal.

i know i said i was broke and realize that i dont plan on spending very much to get the project started.
probably $40 for a used turbo (maybe less with an ebay auction)
and another $30 on a used router (again.. probably an ebay auction)
then i will need a psi guage to tell me if there is any psi whatsoever.
as long as the psi doesnt force the valves open.. its not going to need a blowoff valve.

what do i think is more silly.. asking if there is anything hidden under the top radiator cover .. or going on and on about my headgasket and wanting a turbo.

it all boils down to this though..
if the compression is good and the car runs sluggish, the computer is going to need flashed and i will have to save up for it.
its nice to know if i need to save up.

i just want to drown my 0-60 mph time.
i am willing to upgrade my brake pads to decrease my stopping times.

 

This thread is kinda old now but I find it funny that the poster didn't want to pry on the crank to determine end play but he used a HAMMER to install the balancer on the crank!! Really? WOW

Anyway I was reading this thread because I have a new oil leak coming from the front of my 3.2 and it didnt start until after i put antifreeze in a hot engine and added a quart of oil. I'm hoping it's just the seal and not a cracked block or something...

 

For clarification, the radiator cap failed or was not properly installed and simply came off while the car was hot causing all the fluid to shoot out. Instead of waiting on the engine to cool off I put new antifreeze in while the engine was still hot. I then noticed the oil was a quart low and added a quart. No leaks right after but once my wife got home the next day I noticed a puddle under the front of engine! any thoughts? I'm really hoping its just the seal...

 

it is true, if the top crankshaft bearing was made out of clay..
you could tap on the crankshaft sideways without ever changing the shape of the clay.
but
if you applied 100 lbs of force up and down on either end of the crankshaft.. then those pieces of clay would show deformations.

tapping the pulley onto the crankshaft could be as simple as scooting the crankshaft backwards 1 or 2mm until the counter-balance touches the engine block.
if the counter-balance doesnt touch the engine block.. it is certainly going to need to touch the bearing caps.
there is always something that keeps the crankshaft from moving forward or backwards.

rocking the bearing cap from side to side has the potential to keep the middle of the bearing in perfect shape.
an ugly argument to be zooming in this far.. but side to side is not the same as prying the crankshaft up and down.

if i put a pry bar on the front of the crankshaft.. i wouldnt know if i was yanking to get the piston rod to wiggle, or if i was trying to snap the bolts on the front bearing cap.

that is when you simply get out a stand that can hold a digital measurement tool.. put the teeth of the tool onto the crankshaft and put about 30 lbs onto the pry bar.
if the digital measurement tool says you havent moved a single millimeter (or 1/100th of a millimeter)
then you know the front and rear bearings are okay.

not something you can see with the naked eyeball if you are ever going to do it right.


anyways..
i think everybody puts the balancer back on with a few hammer taps and the rest of the way with the balancer bolt.

i dont think everybody takes a chance snapping (or stripping) the front bearing cap bolts with a pry bar because they dont have a measurement tool properly setup.