dont forget about the wearing the beanie hat in a orange jump suit

 

Maybe I misunderstood what lockout means
So you are saying that after entering the pin wrong 3 times the pcm goes into lockout mode.
You said " Lockout mode prevents tampering with a scan tool to gain access to the SKIM module function"
So the lockout only refers to the scan tool ?

I am more interested in what happens with the car when trying to start it after a lockout
Does the car still start with the correct key ?
Can it be restored from lockout by locking/unlocking the passenger side door like dodger was saying ?

 

The key will still work after it resets. The keys will never become unprogrammed unless the SKIM fails, the key transponder fails or keys are manually erased using the scan tool.

No, using the key in the door just disables the alarm system. Has nothing to do with SKIM functions whatsoever.

OK, lemme go look and I may have something to paste here so you can get a more clear picture. I know it's a mess

 

HAHA, I thought that was only in the Hybrid training video (The Hybrid they only made like 10 of)

 

This is 1999 language and operation. Things have changed since then but this pertains to the original post which was a 1999 LH body

ALARM SYSTEM (VTSS)




The Vehicle Theft Security System (VTSS) is designed to protect against whole vehicle theft. The system monitors vehicle doors, deck lid key cylinder, and ignition action for unauthorized operation. The alarm activates:

• Sounding of the horn
• Flashing of the park and tail lamps
• Flashing of the headlamps
• An engine kill feature (without SKIS)

Upon failure of proper VTSS/SKIM communication to the PCM, the PCM will shut off fuel after two seconds of run time. The engine will not re-crank on the key cycle that the failure occurred, a full key down sequence must be performed for the engine to crank again. After six consecutive fuel shut-offs, the engine will no longer crank on subsequent key cycles. (IT"S 3 NOW IN MOST CARS) The failure must be corrected and a valid communication process between the BCM (VTSS), or SKIM, and the PCM must occur for the engine to crank and start again.



The electronics for the VTSS are part of the Body Control Module (BCM) The system is armed when the vehicle is locked using the:

• Power door lock switches
• Remote Keyless Entry transmitter.
• After the vehicle is locked and the last door is closed, the set LED indicator in the top cover will flash quickly for 16 seconds, indicating that arming is in progress. If no monitored systems are activated during this period, the system will arm. After 16 seconds the indicator LED will continue to flash at a slower rate.

This indicates that the system is armed. If the deck lid key cylinder switch is not sensed by the system, the indicator LED will remain lit during the arming process, although the system will still arm. If the indicator LED does not illuminate at all upon door closing it indicates that the system is not arming.
Passive disarming occurs upon normal vehicle entry by unlocking either door with the ignition key/remote transmitter. This disarming will also halt the alarm once it has been activated.
A tamper alert exists to notify the driver that the VTSS had been activated. This alert consists of 3 horn pulses when the vehicle is disarmed.
The VTSS will not arm by pushing down the door lock mechanism. This will manually override the system.

SENTRY KEY IMMOBILIZER MODULE (SKIM)

The Sentry Key Immobilizer Module (SKIM) Sentry Key Immobilizer Module contains a Radio Frequency (RF) transceiver and a central processing unit, which includes the Sentry Key Immobilizer System (SKIS) program logic. The SKIS programming enables the SKIM to program and retain in memory the codes of at least two, but no more than eight electronically coded Sentry Key transponders. The SKIS programming also enables the SKIM to communicate over the Programmable Communication Interface (PCI) bus network with the Powertrain Control Module (PCM), and/or the DRB lll® scan tool
The SKIM transmits and receives RF signals through a tuned antenna enclosed within a molded plastic ring formation that is integral to the SKIM housing. When the SKIM is properly installed on the steering column, the antenna ring is oriented around the circumference of the ignition lock cylinder housing Sentry Key Immobilizer Module Location This antenna ring must be located within eight millimeters (0.31 inches) of the Sentry Key in order to ensure proper RF communication between the SKIM and the Sentry Key transponder.
For added system security, each SKIM is programmed with a unique "Secret Key" code and a security code. The SKIM keeps the "Secret Key" code in memory and sends the code over the PCI bus to the PCM, which also keeps this code in its memory. The SKIM also sends the "Secret Key" code to each of the programmed Sentry Key transponders. The security code is used by the assembly plant to access the SKIS for initialization, or by the dealer technician to access the system for service. The SKIM also stores in its memory the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN), which it learns through a PCI bus message from the PCM during initialization.
The SKIM and the PCM both use software that includes a rolling code algorithm strategy, which helps to reduce the possibility of unauthorized SKIS disarming. The rolling code algorithm ensures security by preventing an override of the SKIS through the unauthorized substitution of the SKIM or the PCM. However, the use of this strategy also means that replacement of either the SKIM or the PCM units will require a system initialization procedure to restore system operation.
When the ignition switch is turned to the ON or START positions, the SKIM transmits an RF signal to excite the Sentry Key transponder. The SKIM then listens for a return RF signal from the transponder of the Sentry Key that is inserted in the ignition lock cylinder. If the SKIM receives an RF signal with valid "Secret Key" and transponder identification codes, the SKIM sends a "valid key" message to the PCM over the PCI bus. If the SKIM receives an invalid RF signal or no response, it sends "invalid key" messages to the PCM. The PCM will enable or disable engine operation based upon the status of the SKIM messages.
The SKIM also sends messages to the BCM which controls the VTSS indicator LED. The SKIM sends messages to the BCM to turn the LED on for about three seconds when the ignition switch is turned to the ON position as a bulb test. After completion of the bulb test, the SKIM sends bus messages to keep the LED off for a duration of about one second. Then the SKIM sends messages to turn the LED on or off based upon the results of the SKIS self-tests. If the VTSS indicator LED comes on and stays on after the bulb test, it indicates that the SKIM has detected a system malfunction and/or that the SKIS has become inoperative.
If the SKIM detects an invalid key when the ignition switch is turned to the ON position, it sends messages to flash the VTSS indicator LED. The SKIM can also send messages to flash the LED and to generate a single audible chime tone. These functions serve as an indication to the customer that the SKIS has been placed in its "Customer Learn" programming mode.

 

How does it reset ?
Are you saying that whatever dodger was doing was useless and nothing to do with resetting the pcm from lockout mode ?

I just want to make sure I follow the logic based on what you said
"The keys will never become unprogrammed unless the SKIM fails" does that mean that if the skim fails that the key will become unprogrammed or not necessarily

Can the keys be erased using the scan tool ?

 

think of it like this a key has a secret code built into each one when U program a key so to speak U tell the SKIM module to look for a new keys number and then it remembers that keys number so when U want to start the skim will look to see if that number matches its own data base for being programed if it is ok to start if not U wont.

 

In lockout mode, the car won't start. Won't even crank. Period.

What you want to do is to tape the working chip-key to the column and use a regular key in the ignition lock. The SKIM will 'see' the correct chip and everything's hunky dory, vroom vroom...

I put my 99 concorde into lockout (or so the dealer said) by starting the car 3+ times without the proper chip key (ran for a few seconds each time). Once in lockout, I never did get it to start again. I swapped modules (BCM, PCM and TCM) with a 98, direct changeover. 98 has no SKIM. I think I overkilled it though, might have been able to only replace the PCM, but I did all 3, just to be sure the car would GO... I wasted enough time on it as it was.

A lot of 1999+ cars at auctions come without keys, I'm talking about abandoned/siezed aka CHEAP auctions. Buyers have learned (the hard way) that a $500 car might cost $300 more for a key, and THEN you can see if the *&%$ P.O.S. runs. SO no more 'great bargains' on 10 year old cars. I drove unwanted, $100 auction cars for years (in the 1980/90's) and saved TONS of money (not to mention learned a lot too) fixing them up and driving them. Not any more... the younger generation has been gypped out of this little benefit... your average 20 year old kid doesn't know squat about cars - been told there's nothing fixable, which is far from the truth, the car practically TELLS you what's wrong IF you know how to listen...

My 99 Concorde runs great, it just thinks it's a 98 now... with 40,000 less miles, from the donor car...

 

I understand about the programing of the key and how it works I was just wondering about the statement from TNtech where he said "keys are manually erased using the scan tool"
Can that be done ?

I have an 89 ltd old police car that I bought at the police auction back in 1993 and it's getting a bit old but it's still running and I just bought a 2007 dodge charger with some collision damage on it to replace it and to save a little on gas
While I was working around the steering column I saw a whole bunch of wires that looked like a rat's nest That was some kind of remote start I am guessing it said Viper on one of the boxes. Anyway I carefully removed it since I didn't have any remotes for it It looked kind of amateurish with the way it was held together with electrical tape
Fortunately only 1 wire was cut that I had to fix the others were just stripped and the wire wrapped around. There was also a wire loop around the ignition cylinder I am guessing so that would bypass the immobilizer somehow which I also removed
This is the first time I am dealing with a security system so I am trying to find out as much as I can about how it works in case I have problems
I just as well would prefer not to have it at all since it may cause no start problems under certain circumstances. It's just one more thing that can go wrong
I like to keep things simple

 

Yes, with a scan tool they can be erased from the SKIM memory, but the function erases ALL of the keys. I only do that when someone comes in that has lost or stolen keys. I can erase all the keys to it, and re-program ONLY the ones they have in their possesion.

Like dodger said though if you're worried about losing your SKIM key just take one and tape it the the steering column shell. (I prefer inside myself) then just use regular keys. OR...just don't loose your keys.