Need help fast.
 

Hi guys.

so we've been messing with a 1996 chrysler concorde 3.5L, for about a week now, and we have a no start, no spark. It cranks. We have signal, power and ground at crank and cam sensor. We have power to our coils, but no signal to coil. We've tested continuity in wires, looked for loose grounds. We've tried everything time and time again. It cranks fine, and you can hear fuel pump turn on, and there's pressure in the fuel lines. since we had signal, and fuel pump, we didn't think it was auto shut down.

We tried to just throw in a crank sensor last night for ****s because we're at our wits end, and whats better than throwing parts at it?
...no luck.

so we thought it had to be the ignition module in the PCM, we got one from the junk yard, and its not working either? Do you have to unhoook the battery and clear the codes or anyting with the PCM??

the flash diagnostics only gave us a low battery code.

What could we have missed? any other ideas? Thanks in advance.

RE: Need help fast.
 

oops, never mind on the reply.

the question still stands.

RE: Need help fast.
 

alright based off what u posted and it is all correct get a spark tester if u have not done so it will hook inline to the plug and wire turn it over and see if u get a flashing light. From the sound of it u do have a bad PCM but a junk yard one wont do u ne good because it has to be vin programed inorder to run. Plus it has to be the same PCM that u took it out of. But b4 u go spend some money on an expensive PCM look for this stuff get a Volt meter if u dont have one 20 bucks at an auto parts store will do. I will upload several wiring diagrams inorder do this. First pic with the Key on at either the cam or crank sensor look for the 5v supply same pic with key on check the OHMS to the pcm on the sensor ground ckt it should be 60 Ohms. If u dont have either one U need a PCM OOO one other thing make sure u have check all your fuses first key on. and u say u have Auto shut down power correct?
Next look at Coil pack wires
IGNITION COIL PACK CAV CIRCUIT FUNCTION 1 K18 20RD IGNITION COIL NO. 3 DRIVER 2 K19 20BK IGNITION COIL NO. 1 DRIVER 3 A142 16DG/OR AUTO SHUT DOWN RELAY OUTPUT 4 K17 20WT IGNITION COIL NO. 2 DRIVER
key on ASD will have 12 volts turn the key over to start and any one of the drivers should flash this is with a test light volt meater 12 volts on off.
Let me know PS if u need a PCM u will haft to have some on program it aka the dealer or some one with a high end scanner or it might not even start. The instructions with the new PCM will tell u. Good luck

RE: Need help fast.
 

thanks man.

we've tested all the signal wires and they are all good. We've looked at coil pack wires a million times, we have signal and battery power, tried jumping the wires, tested continuity anything and everything....nothing.

how do I check the entire ground circuit?I Believe we have power at auto shut down, we'd almost have to if we have fuel pump, crank and cam sensor.

how much will a PCM run me, I have access to a High end scanner, but you probably n eed the chrysler tech website though right?

RE: Need help fast.
 

oh btw. its a 1996, you sure its VIN written? I thought they didn't start doing that until 2000.

RE: Need help fast.
 

yeah sure its vin written benn doing that sence SBEC 1 computers have been out in 94
I forgot the pic

[IMG]local://upfiles/1033/C9F41A36B4BD4BBE9DC0FEF4D0730A10.gif[/IMG]

RE: Need help fast.
 

how do i test the entire ground circuit?

it almost has to be the PCM.

RE: Need help fast.
 

i told u the ground u are looking at for the cam and crank it inside the PCM via a ground filter when the pcm is powered up it will make a 60ohm restance for the ckt to work when the key is off it will be 0

RE: Need help fast.
 

okay, so if thats is within spec, where do we go from there.

if its above 60ohm, where do we want to go?

thanks.

p.s. thats from the pcm ground back to any ground right?

RE: Need help fast.
 

if possable black lead to batt ground and the other end to the sensor ground on which ever connector u have taken off. if they are with in spec check the coil pack drivers like i said in a few posts back

RE: Need help fast.
 

I said we've checked the coil pack wires, and we've checked a whole bunch of times, anyway we can, tried to jump all the wires and everything.

the thing is, we dont' have any lighting of the test light and the connector is unplugged, but we have signal when its plugged in and backprobed with a DVOM. We've checked the contiunity and ohmed out each of the wires, and the wires are good, we've taken apart the connector to see how the connection there was, and that was good as well.

when we cranked it and held the plug boot out to see if spark would jump, on one coil we got one spark, one time while cranking. On a few others it sparked once as we stopped cranking, probably just because of an inductuve kick.

we've taken advantate of auto zone's return policy just to check some stuff, like crank sensor and coil packs, those didn't change anything. (we had signal from crank sensor anyway, but we're pissed, so we tried it)

so I guess we're just getting a really weak signal from the control module in the PCM??

RE: Need help fast.
 

did u do anything that i said in the other posts??? The coil will have a signal on either one of the 3 drivers when cranking. No test light how about a spark tester? u can get thoes from an auto parts store to just something that will go inline to the plug and wire.
When starting also see if u get the 12 volt feed at the coil from the asd side. What about the 5 volt supply at the cam and crank yes no??? and the 60 Ohm restance at the same sensors yes no???

RE: Need help fast.
 

I don't want to sound rude, or unnappreciative of the help you are giving me as you are the only one, I don't want this to sound belligerent becuase its not meant to be and is simply just a question. But did you read anything I said?

we've got the 12 volts at the coil.

the DVOM says we have signal at the coils when cranking.

We've got the 5 volt reference at cam and crank, we've got everything at the sensors. we've jumped the wires from the pcm straight to the sensors, and ohmed out those wires too, they are all okay.

and we tried checking spark old school ways, pulled boot and held it close to the coil electrode, and also, with a screw driver in the plug boot, we can still get a spark checker and do it again.

thanks again.

RE: Need help fast.
 

so u have all that u do or not get spark when u do it the old school way??? if u get spark and still wont run something else has to be wrong u are getting fuel pressure?? what about air into the intake good? OH ps did u check the 60Ohm restance on the sensor ground ckt do u have it when the key is on and turn the key off it goes away?

RE: Need help fast.
 

The car is not at my house so I dind't check the ground circuit yet. So that'll be the last thing.

We didn't have any spark at all.

We have fuel pressure, fuel in the rails, and fuel pump kicks on.

What it seems is happening is that the ignition control module might have a short and feeding signal to each wire constalty, and not giving each wire enough to jump the coil and let it spark. And since the control module is up-integrated into the PCM, that would result in replacing the PCM.

I'll let you know when we check the ground circuit.

RE: Need help fast.
 

u still did not check the ign coil drivers that right there will tell u if the pcm is ne good the pic attached will tell u what i am talking about good that u have power to coil thats all fine and dandy look at the drivers that would be pulsing ground back to the pcm. The asd relay supply power and the pcm will supply ground based on what coil it wants to fire. WIth the coil unpluged or back prob it turn it over if u have a test light hook it up to + and watch the light pulse on the drivers. No test light use the volt meter
hook the + to the coil then the - to the - batt fire it up if u dont get any change voltage then yes u have a bad pcm. Oh yeah one other factor does this thing have an alarm system? if the pcm sees that it has been broken into it will either turn off fuel, spark, or starter functions. For piss and giggles to the the driver side door and lock and unlock do the same with the pass door. Try then if no change then resume with coil diog.

RE: Need help fast.
 

geee keep forgetting to upload the pics

[IMG]local://upfiles/1033/9DB0932A8D014384A5414EDCB26A8EA5.gif[/IMG]

RE: Need help fast.
 

we already back probed the driver wires at the coil. They aren't pulsing voltage with the voltmeter. I'll try it with the test light back probed.

not sure about the alarm system, it does have keyless entry. We'll try the key thing...if it is just that after all that I'd be beside myelf, ha ha.

RE: Need help fast.
 

if all said and done then a pcm is needed a new one not a junk yard one

RE: Need help fast.
 

well, i'll let you know tomorrow what the ground circuit resitance is.

Now, we have voltage at the coil from the driver wires, but it constant on all of them.

RE: Need help fast.
 

u should not have power on them u should have ground on them when starting up turn the key off and see if u still have power on the driver ckts see what i mean in the attached pic above??? the asd supplys power and the pcm does the gound. SO the pcm will ground which ever driver it wants there should not be ne power on the driver ckts.

RE: Need help fast.
 

tried the lock/unlock procedure, didn't work.

checked resistance of the ground circuit, koeo is right around 60Ohms like you said, key off its less than 500milliohms.

when the coil wires are back probed and the connector plugged in, the test light stayed on and constant at the coil wires, no blinks at all.

RE: Need help fast.
 

did u have the test light on + or -? if u are checking for power u want the light to be on - if u are checking for gound u want it to be on + which u want to have the lead on + because the pcm makes ground

RE: Need help fast.
 

hmm, you have me confused on this one.

I didn't know test lights had a positive or ground side, unless you mean the probe side and the ground lead...

do you want us to hook the ground lead to our back probe pin and then the postive probe to a ground??

RE: Need help fast.
 

if u want to check for power u hook the clip thats what we will call the other end of the probe.
To check for power with the test light u hook the clip end to a ground source or - battery terminal.
To check for ground u hook the clip end to + battery terminal and then the prob to a ground source or in this matter the coil drivers will be the ground source when u try and start the car.

RE: Need help fast.
 

oooh, gotcha. I'll try that this evening.

RE: Need help fast.
 

okay, we tried it that other way.

we had someone telling us we could have a short, and I believe we do. The light is on even with the ASD pulled and no cranking and stays on when cranking. Light is on when the crank sensor is pulled, but goes off when cranking with crank sensor pulled.

hooked up to ground, light stays on when cranking with crank sensor pulled. goes when cranking with ASD pulled.

RE: Need help fast.
 

send me an email with a yahoo,msn,aol so i can talk to u directly

RE: Need help fast.
 

we tried the other PCM. with the coil pack connector unplugged, no light with test light. no light cranking. We have light when plugged in.

I don't know if this matters, but when we push the test light against some of the pcm wire connectors, the light goes on, is that okay?

Matt

RE: Need help fast.
 

well, I think its time to just go ahead and replace the PCM. I finally get why you test the connector with itunplugged to look for short to ground...duh. and since we dont, that checks like all those wires in the circuit. we've got signal and power where we should. Its gotta be the ICM in the PCM.

RE: Need help fast.
 

So... after ALL that, we don't get to find out what the problem was?!?!

RE: Need help fast.
 

Ya, no kidding! lol