Haven't seen that one. Nor have I had any problems with the replacement parts (I've done this on two cars), but it took 8 years for the original to fail, so if the replacement lasts that long, it'll be plenty long enough.

Coolant Air Bleeder Housing
 

Hello everyone,
Thank you all for your useful input. Last week I run into the same problem with my Sebring '04. Suddenly, while driving 60km/h the water sensor went close to the red zone, with the sound alarm and sensor light on. I pulled over, open the hood and there was hissing noise and steam coming out from the housing, between the 2 parts glued together.
I waited until the engine cooled off a bit, got some tap water (nothing else available) and pured about 3 litters in. Started the engine, the temperature was withing the normal range.
Droved home, about 10 km, the temp was within normal range.
Tried to use JB Weld - didn't work for me --> initially the sensor didn't move from the cold-zone, then suddenly started to rise up, and the top-part of the housing blew off.
Ordered Dorman replacement - $88.00 (Toronto), in 3 hours delivered to the store.
Installed the new part, started teh car, bleeded it a couple of times, run for about 20 km and the sensor is showing lower-than-expected temperature.
Is that normal?

Check your antifreeze
 

You didn't report anything about replacing the antifreeze you lost. Adding 3 liters of tap water will dilute your antifreeze and reduce it's effectiveness. Now that you really have no idea what concentration of antifreeze you actually have in there, it's probably best to get a proper flush and fill with the proper concentration of the correct antifreeze. Don't just run out and buy any old stuff and dump it in there willy-nilly. Different types of antifreeze are incompatible. Get the right stuff as spelled out in the owners manual.

As for the temperature gauge, it usually operates toward the low end of the range, maybe one quarter of the way between the "C" and the "H". If the heater is putting out enough heat to get you through a Canadian winter, you're fine.

Next time, leave the bleed screw alone. Fill the system and operate the car through a few warm-up and cool-down cycles. It'll bleed itself, then refill as necessary.

Thank you dcotter,
I am planning to flush and replace antifreeze, and by the seller advise I bought Prestone Dex-Cool, it does say on the bottle that it meets Chrysler LLC MS-7170, MS-9769, beside GM :), and it is 5yrs/150.000 miles.

In my owner manual says: look under the hood --> nothing there about the coolant.
Haynes book says the same about 2004 sedans, 2.7: "look under the hood".

The temperature before was constantly between 3/8 and 1/2 on the scale (C--H).
The first day run for about 20 minutes on HWY it was top on 1/4!
In the afternoon, after another 30 minutes driving, it reached 3/8, but not over. I guess it might be because its too much water, or the new sensor (made in China) is not as correct as the original one.

Heating, cooling and A/C are working fine.

When flushing the cooling system, do I have to remove the thermostat, as it says in Haynes? And then put it back in, and then fill up...
Another question: I didn't see any opening on the top of the radiator, so do I fill up from the expansion tank?

Thank you.

You fill at the expansion tank. Draining is the problem. There's a draincock at the bottom right side of the radiator, but it's a bear to get to and it's plastic. If you break it, there's a whole new set of problems.
You might want to consider buying a Prestone flush-n-fill kit. Basically, you cut into a heater hose and insert a "T" fitting to which you can connect a garden hose. Then you can flush the whole system using that fitting and fill also by adding the anti-freeze which pushes out the water.
It works better if you can remove the thermostat, but that's a difficult procedure on the 2.7L engine, because to get to it, you need to remove the alternator. The t-stat is on the bottom front of the engine. Yes. it's an idiotic design.
Another caution with the Prestone kit is that city water pressure can be as high as 90 psi, plenty enough to blow the seals on the car's water pump, which is designed for about 16 psi. So if you use it, just crack your hose tap to allow the water to flow slowly.
Me, I've given up on the whole process and take the car over to the local Valvoline oil change shop where they do the job for about $80 or so. Basically, they pull off a hose and insert their own "T" fittings.
Your new sensor probably explains the difference in the needle position. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Thanks dcotter,
I got a quote for $60 from my shop, (flush and refill) with coolant provided by me, and I will go for it.

What is bothering me is that I didn't see the fans to turn ON since I changed the sensor. With car idle the needle doesn't go over 3/8. All hises are HOT on touch.
The fans were working OK before, like when the engine is hot (close to 1/2) the fan was ON. Is that because of the sensor?
Like, if the sensor gives lower value to the PCM, then PCM doesn't start the fan for no reason...
Is there any sense to put back the old (original) sensor? Its metal to metal thread connection, as it is with the new bleeder...

Another thing, when the problem first occurred, with the old (original) sensor, the fan turned OFF when I turned OFF the ignition key, even though the engine was still hot.
Is that a relay issue?

Thank you.

The way I read the wiring diagram, both the high speed and low speed fan relays are energized through the ignition switch, which means that when the key is turned off, the fans should kick out.
As far as when the fans should come on, with the A/C off, the low speed fan should kick in at 220°F (104°C), the high speed fan at 230°F(110°C). (It's a pressurized system so the coolant temp can exceed normal boiling temps.) With the A/C on and pressurized the low speed fan comes on at 210°F.
Yes, you could swap out the temp sensor, assuming it's the same thread size (probably is). The problem with the bleed screw is not with the threads directly, but that the threads stick and when you turn the screw, the metal piece it threads into spins in the plastic housing because it's not well anchored, causing a leak. You really have nothing to lose by trying to remove the old sensor from the old housing. If it sticks and breaks the housing, so what? If it comes out, you're probably going to be OK. The new part is less likely to stick. If you decide to try it and are successful in extracting both the old and new sensors, use teflon tape on the threads of the sensor when putting it in. Be careful not to put the tape on beyond the end of the threads so you don't wind up with scraps of tape floating in the system.

Thank you dcotter,

I followed the fact that AC-on is lowering the temperature threshold for the fans, and while idling in the parking spot, with engine hot (needle showing 1/4), I turned On-OFF the AC a couple of times. Guess what - about 2 seconds after AC-on the fans start, run for about 30 seconds, and stop for about 20-30 seconds, and then again, cycling.

AC-off --> the fans turn OFF and stay OFF.
AC-on again --> fans start cycling on-off.

I tried to take the old sensor out of the housing, but it didn't work - spins in the housing. So I wouldn't go further with this option.
On Monday I will flush & change the coolant and I will let you know if there is any change.

Is there a possible situation that the engine will overheat without sensing it? Or I should drive the car with my AC-on all the time :)

The fans operate only as necessary. As they cool down the car, they shut off. Your description sounds like they are working properly. There is not much load on the car when idling. The engine is not working very hard and there is not a great need to dump heat. Turning on the A/C increases the load slightly. When the car is really working hard, such as driving at high speeds or pulling a trailer or climbing hills, the fans may or may not be needed because there may be sufficient air flow without them.
Driving the car with the A/C on won't help cool the engine. The A/C system dumps heat from the interior of the car to the condenser, which is actually located right in front of the radiator, so between the extra load on the engine and the heat dumped into the incoming radiator air, you are actually putting more load on the car's cooling system.
As I said, the fans are not expected to work continuously. Your description sounds like they are coming on and off as intended.

Change the coolant - change in the working status
 

Here is what I did in order to see if there is any change in the fan's work:
I heat up the engine (driving outside about 10 km) and then park in the underground garage in order to let the engine run idling, and heat up enough in order to start the fans. No air flow through the radiator.

- before changing the coolant, assuming that the car is running mainly on water, I would say more than 85% water --> after 10 minutes idling the needle did not move up from 1/4 and the fans did not come ON.
I pushed it to 2.500 - 3.000 rpm for a couple of minutes --> the needle rises up to the middle between 3/8 and 1/2 --> the fans come ON.

- after the flush and changing the coolant --> after 5 minutes idling the needle rises up to the same point (middle between 3/8 and 1/2) and the fans come ON.

I would assume that the thermostat reads different values if there is water (freezing at 0, boiling at 100 Celsius) and coolant (freezing below -37 C, boiling above 129 C).
Is that possible?

It sounds like you are saying the fans come on when the temperature gauge reaches the same point regardless of the antifreeze mixture. That's how it should be. Neither the temp sensor nor the thermostat know or care what mixture is in there. They can only react to temperature. The temperature of the system is controlled by the thermostat which begins to open at about 88° to 93°C (192° to 199°F) and should be fully open at about 104°C (220°F). Even if the system contains excess water, boiling will be reduced by the combined presence of the antifreeze that is there and the pressure cap.
Nothing you have described makes me suspicious of the antifreeze mixture, the thermostat or the fans.
You might want to make a good visual inspection of the radiator to be sure that the front of it is not blocked up with leaves and bugs to an excessive degree. That's just good maintenance which you should do anyway.

Thank you for you help dcotter.
Now that everything woks fine, I am not afraid to go for a couple of days on a long trip.

coolant sensor housing parts
 

Hi all I was able to get this part at Carquest for $64.00 it comes with the sensor and gasket.
You will need a set of Metric swivel sockets to reach back bolt I found it easiest to remove intake and just raise it up a bit to clear access to hidden bolt also made it easier to install new part.
I live in House Springs Mo. Just outside of St. Louis
Dennis

Okaaaay:

Here's the tool you need:

WRENCHES > Ratcheting > Flex Combination > | GearWrench™

8 mm size, available at Lowe's for about $8.00


Here's the part:

Compressor Works/Water Outlet (815636) | 2001 Chrysler Sebring Convertible 6 Cylinders U 2.7L SFI DOHC | AutoZone.com

With this tool, it is NOT, repeat NOT necessary to remove or disturb the upper intake manifold. It does help to remove the plug to the MAP sensor to get a little more room to swing the wrench.

Ok...so I was able to change the water outlet by loosening the manifold and lifting the left side by about one half inch so I could get to the "horror" screw. No problem...re...tightened manifold re-clipped wires to new sensor and put the sensor back on the manifold that I had to remove to get the wrench handle in. I re-clipped the plug.

All works well...no leaks but my check engine light is now on! Never been on before! Any ideas...is there a gasket under the manifold that I may have crimped? Re-cipped up the 2 plastic sensor plugs but no help.

Also my gas station ran out of regular just before the housing broke. Can the middle grade gas cause the check engine light to go on?

Maybe I broke a sensor wire..I don't think I did but I guess it's possible. Help!

First find out why the check engine light is on. Many auto parts stores (except in California) will check it for free. Or borrow a code reader from a friend, or buy your own. It'll pay for itself after one or two uses. Go from there.
Mid grade fuel won't hurt the car or cause the CEL to go on.
50 years ago my neighbor who was a mechanic told me not to take apart anything unless I had to. It remains good advice.

That tool could save me at least 30 minutes work time, and lifting up twice the upper intake mainfold (for about 1/2 inch). Luckily, after the trip of 1500 km for the last long weekend, it all looks good.
Driving on HWY, ECO L/100 km = 7.9, using the AC 1/3 of the road.
The car has 152.000 km on board, and its a pleasure to drive.

Totally agree with you on that, however sometimes lack of information or tools make you to do more work than it is necessary.
Like, according to the Hayes book, to change the output speed sensor on Cirrus '99, 2.5 V6, you have to remove a lot of parts, including PCM, and at the end see that there is no access for your tool there. But, if you just remove the front left wheel, and the plastic cover, like as if you want to change your battery, there is a full access to change the sensor.

Thanks again dcooter.

coolant outlet
 

thanks guys for your help. I managed to get it out and find the part by your information I was unable to find the flexible tool over here. so, i lift up the intake and it works. In my books, I never saw the name of that part, neither the picture of it. in canada at my dealer the part was 170.00$. I bought it at amazone for 40.00$ but with the express shipping (36.00) I still saved a lot.

First .the 8mm tool was not long enough to get the rear screw to break it's seal. I bought a swivel head and a long extension , connected it to rachet wrench and it lootened easily

Weird stuff: Wateroutlet let went on fine..filled with anti freeze..brought up t6 temp. all looked good but the check engine light came on as soon as I started it! Car ran fine...drove it a few miles.
Next day went to pick my son up about 3 miles away and when I got there carwas steaming...boiling in the expansion tank. Pep Boys right up the street..I brought it.

They checked it and said head gasket blown!

But when they put fluid back in they said the check engine light was now off!

They said I did a good job on putting on the new water outlet with new sensor.

Had the car towed home.

Noticed in the manual that comes with car it said that on the 2.7 v6 adding anti freeze was a special procedure! But not how to do it.

I figured maybe pep boys did it the right way.

I started the car and no boil over in the expansion tank. Drove the car about 10 miles so far and it's perfect. Head gaskets don't fix themselves!

It may start again...I don't know but something is strange here. I was going to sell the car for parts!

I thinck that's because you forgot to purge the air after your reinstalled the outlet. you have to do it a few times to get all the air out ( that's probably the special procedure that you where taking ). that's what I read about refilling the collant.

yep...you are probably right..and when I took it to Pep Boys they most likely did it right and the check engine light was now off when they gave it to me however they still told my that they felt the head gasket was bad. But the car is running fine.

The other thing I noticed it that the thermostat was running closer to the halfway mark...just a little bit below it when the outlet let go....when i got it back from Pep Boys it runs now just a little bit above 1/4.

It may have stuck and that's why the water outlet top poped off...just a guess. When Pep Boys did their check they may have inatvertantly force it open! And put the new anti freeze in the correct way.

I'm going to change the thermostat just for safety it is ten years old. But both Pep Boys
and a Chrysler Expert on line said the head gasket was gone and never mentioned the special procedure about putting antifreeze in the 2.7 V6 that the owner manual mentions. I was just sitting there reading the manual by dumb luck while the car was warming up when I came across that paragraph.

I almost sold the car for junk to the tow truck driver! I got a little lucky!!

Bought the car with 60k on it and has runs great. Got 83k on it now. Only paid 4k for it and it looks new except for a little top wear. Hint: if the threading on the sides starts to rot I went to a craft store and bought a curved needle. They also sell plastic coated black steel thread! I just fixed the spots and it holds perfectly. It's a little tough getting the needle through the canvas sometimes so I change the needle after it dulls but well worth it...the top doesn't look like a piece of junk for being ten years old!

As I mentioned that small ratchet didn't work for me and cost about $14. Couldn't get enough leverage to crack the screw under the manifold. I bought a swivel head and an extension (about 12") and put an 8mm on the end. It worked perfect...the screw was tight and I needed the extra leverage to crack the seal. Anybody want to buy a small 8mm ratchet cheap? lol

Sewing Convertible top
 

I also have the edges of my top decaying, but my plan is to replace them with new edging since I have sections missing. I will be using this sewing awl tool from Tandy. There is a Hot-To video for it. It shows $22 for it, but I bought mine at Tandy in Mississuaga Canada for $10. They also have a tool to mark the stitch locations with 5,6, or 7 stitches per inch.
Sewing Awl
Tandy Leather Factory - Sewing Awl Kit
Marker tool
Tandy Leather Factory - Craftool Overstitch Wheel System

Awesome...didn't know that existed...at least what I did worked even if it took a long time. Also I put the top up half way and put a broom handle to hold it there. This took all the tension off of the edging making it easier to work with....Thanks!

My overheating problem came back yesterday morning again! But the temp gauge still shows below half! Then I put in more anti freeze and bled out the air again because I had to go to the bank..about a 5 mile trip. No over heating again or bubbling in the expansion tank. Could the thermostat be sticking..it's ten years old. Only thing I don't get is why the temp gauge doesn't shoot way up...never had that happen on a car in 50 years. When any car I owned over heated including one with a bad head gasket you could see the temp gauge going up. I drove a car for a year with a bad head gasket...I just added fluid as it went down the gauge let me know. Well I got to use the car this morning so I'll see what happens...I have anti freeze in the trunk. At least when I stop I can see steam coming from the expansion tank if it's over heating lol.

There are tests that can be run for a blown head gasket. You can run a compression check, a bleed-down check and cooling system pressure check.
Another symptom of a blown head gasket is a puff of white smoke at a cold start.
You may just have a weak pressure cap that is allowing steam to escape even though the car is not really overheating. Check out the cheap solutions to your problem first.

Great advice! I'm taking it a mechanic my son knows. He's not even going to charge me for doing a block check. I'm going to copy your suggestions and give them to him also. Oh..one more thing...I noticed a small dimple in the hood of my car. When the water let popped off the brass bleeder went up through the insulation and pushed into the hood making a dent!
I can live with it but to bad there wasn't more protection there or some type of rubber piece that covered the bleeder screw.

You could probably get that "dimple" repaired by a Paintless Dent Repair technician.

Strange..if i run the air or the heater it seems to cool it enough so the car runs fine. No rumbling in the expansion tank. I took it to inspection , I was over due and the car passed emissions...I got a two year new sticker! Can a car with a bad head gasket pass inspection? Well at any rate I'm having a block test done Monday for free. Maybe the thermostat is causing all this. At least I know I can use the car if I leave the heater on or the air on! lol

Good idea..if the car is ok I'll do that..it's small but it does annoy me!

If you live in a mostly warm climate you can just delete your thermostat.

but take the o ring off the thermostat and put it back to seal it.

Not a good idea to leave the t-stat out. The computer expects the car to warm up in a certain amount of time. If it doesn't, it'll set an error code. A slow warm-up will also negatively affect your fuel economy.

I'd had intermittent heat last winter and assumed it was an electrical problem something to do with the blend door.

Turns out it was this exact problem, with the water outlet housing, which resulted in a coolant loss and hot water not flowing into the heater core.

I replaced this water outlet housing this week. It was a giant pain to do, but it's now done. I removed the front crossmember, which turns out was the easy part. I loosened the intake manifold enough to get a gear wrench on the back bolt and it took me a while to jockey the old one out due to it hanging up somehow probably on the bend in the back of the pipe toward the rear of the engine.

When I put the new one in, it went right up against the intake manifold bracket on the back of the engine. It took some jockeying to get it around the bracket but finally did and buttoned up the whole front part of the engine, leaving connecting the water hose on the back for last.

I go to put the hose on and realize it went around the WRONG side of the bracket. Since everything else was done, there was no way I was going to take everything apart again to fix it. I got the hose back on and all seems to be good now.

What a pain, but at least it's done now!

Guess what..car didn't have a bad head gasket $1800 job!
Took it to my sons mechanic...he said he would check it out
for free, Good price. What the heck...why not...before I sold it for almost
nothing. He aced out the over heating problem....bad pressure cap
on the expansion tank...cost to fix...$10
I noticed the upper hose didn't seem to have pressure when hot.
Without pressure the antifreeze will boil but not hot enough to
turn on the fans. When I put the air on..the fans went on automatically
and it stopped boiling. Put 140 miles on it today with no air on and the
car ran perfect! The key here was the antifreeze was boiling (rumbling around) and NOT bubbling...
that would be a bad gasket if it was bubbling!

quick question i hope someone can help me out with before i go to the part store tomorrow. I am short on money but dont want to bandaid fix the water outlet (confirmed leak) i noticed that autozone sells the part with out the sensor for 22 bucks...thats easy i can afford that...my question is will the sensor thats in my current housing fit and work in the new one? i have had no problems but low coolant levels and intermittent heat at an idle. So i know nothing has gotten bad yet (just dont want it to get to that point) I dont want to get the part then have the old part ripped off and find that i cant use the new part that i bought considering i live about 20 miles from the part store and not to keen on having to drive the car that far to pick up the part in the first place, but i need to fix it tomrrow since work is a 60 miles round trip drive and i dont want anything blowing apart. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated. Thank You

I've fix minor parts most of my life and did replace the water outlet on my 2001 sebring convert. I choose to buy the complete unit with the sensor but I don't see why you can't just unscrew the old one and use it. The reason I change the whole unit was I read in a post that that is a very important sensor and if it goes bad major engine damage can happen. So I had just enough money to cover the entire unit. I would get a new sensor if the car is old at a later date.
Big problem changing the water outlet is one screw under the manifold in the front on the right. You have to loosen all the screws on the top of the manifold (about 6) then pry up the manifold up on the left side about a half inch. If you check this thread out they show you a special ratchet that is 8mm to use to turn that screw..it costs about $12 in Lowes however I couldn't get it to break the seal on the screw because it was to short (6") and dificult to get on the screw head. I was starting top cause damage to the head. So I went and bought a long 1/4 inch handle 10 or 12 inch (not sur) but the longer the better. Then I bought a 1/4 inch tip for it that allowed a 90 degree swivel. Then I bought an 8mm socket for it. I was able to get the socket on straight and with the leverage the screw seal broke easy. Mind you I had to also have some thing under the manifold holding it up a little to get to the scew! Better to have someone with you so you have three arms! Once the sel was broke I think I was able to get my fingers in there and take it out by hand. But the parts to do this didn't come cheap. I may have spent about $25 to $30 for the three pieces. I didn't have any of the parts :( it all went together well and is working fine. But that one screw is a reall pain to get out. That was my experience. Also check your pressure cap. I was told I had a bad head gasket $1800 job that caused the over heating that may have pooped the top off of the water outlet. I wasn't getting water pressure. Check the upper radiator hose when hot (with a glove) and make sure it's firm and has pressure. If it's soft I would get a new radiator cap first...that was my problem...only $10 dollars for the good one with the relief lever on it. I got a round using the car by leaving the air on all the time. The fans stay on all the time. Without water pressure from the bad cap the fans would not turn on and I would over heat. Hope this helps.

Tailspin606 - I installed the water outlet on my 2002 Sebring. I got the part from AutoZone (online). It came with the sensor installed. I thought I had ordered it without the sensor, but it worked out well that it came with it. I was not able to remove the old sensor from the water outlet. When I did get it removed the brass mounting ring spun out with it. The sensor was "welded" to that mounting ring and I could not get it loose even in a vise. I would recommend getting the water outlet WITH the sensor installed.

thank you. I am about to go get all the parts i need now...may not be changing it until late this evening (everyones work schedules and only running car) I will definitly see if they can test my rad cap while im at it, since i did squeeze the upper radiator hose last night and it had a good bit of give to it... so i will replace leaking water outlet and the rad cap. Thank you guys so much. I will let you know what happens

Ok got everything changed over after a little scare. I could not find one of the racheting pivot head wrenches so i had to resort to loosening the intake manifold and prying it up. Got that done and started working on pulling the old water outlet off... a bit of a scare when antifreeze started flying everywhere (didnt have enough drained out i guess) and i thought that a tiny bit of antifreeze went do into the engine by way of the opened intake manifold. Cleaned up what i could with papertowels...Put everything back together and ran it... It blows way more heat that I ever knew this car to blow. I had wondows down and was still sweating with the heat fan turned to the second setting. Just trying to blow out bubbles bleeding the system and burn the excess anitfreeze off the engine where it spilled. I dont think anything actually got into the engine...(engine is still running tip top) but we will see considering i had just done an oil change 2 days prior. I have not ran it enough to kick on the fans yets so i am hoping everything still goes well there.... we will find out when i take it to work tomrrow. So far so good

Sounds good! In the manual on the 2001 it says there is a special procedure for adding antifreeze on the 2.7 engine...but it left it there! lol
What I found out was on top of the water outlet there is a brass valve. This is a bleeder and removes air from the system. I was told on old water outlets leave it alone and just add more anti freeze when the car cools down, bringing it up to the mark on the expansion tank where the fluid should be when cold. Like Tailspin606 said
the same thing can happen on the bleeder valve...the whole brass fitting can turn in the plastic and then you have to replace the water outlet again! But since mine was a brand new outlet I through caution to the wind and after the car warmed up I gently opened it with an 8mm rachet (pretty sure it was 8mm) just a bit and when the system had pressure. I put an ski glove on and opened it a little more by hand. It turned very easily. Finally anti freeze started coming out and I closed it by hand and then gently gave it an extra little tightening with the ratchet (very little). I think this is the special procedure they mention. But as the part ages it's probably best to leave it alone because if the brass fitting starts to turn the water outlet may leak and would have to be replaced again...so I'm taking that advice if I need to add fluid in the future I'm not touching that bleeder valve! Also as I mentioned, if the cap is bad and you start to over heat and the fans arn't turning on you can put the air on and at least in my car the fans come right on and stay on. You can still use the center button and put it up on warm if it's cold out! I ran my car for days like that until I found out the cap was bad and I had no pressure.