2002 CRD On Vegetable Oil or Biodiesel
 

Hi, I was wondering if anyones ever converted a Voyager CRD to run on vegetable oil using a 2 tank system (starts on diesel then switches to oil once warm, switch back to diesel a couple of miles before stopping).

Have been making bio (went to about 50/50 for a couple of tankfuls)but due to keeping it within HMRC limits I'd like to run veg most of the year.

Any immediate or glaringly obvious problems anyone can see?

All help appreciated,

Thought I'd ask again to see if anyones twin tanked a 2.5 crd (2001-2005).
To be honest I'd decided not to risk it back in February, I've put bio in it a couple of times since.
I've been thinking about it again recently and am ready to take the chance with the car. 20p a litre is more appealing than the current £1.40 at the pumps.

Just to add, how many fuel pumps are there? I hear a lift pump from the rear when I switch on the ignition, is there any other fuel pumps up at the engine?

Just an update, thats me 500 miles using 75% biodiesel and 25% pump diesel.
Wouldnt start the other day but thats expected as the bio cleans out the fuel system. Jump start and good rev cleared it, if it happens again I'll change the fuel filter.
I add fuelset to help prevent sludge in the tank (similar to grotamar71).
Lift pump seems quieter, not noticed any difference in fuel economy so far.

Thats the car done 8000 miles on biodiesel now, everything going fine.

Fuel economy's down to around 28-30 MPG (was 33 average) but she needs a service so that might be contributing (+ it's more used for the school run now).

Congrats ...........

With diesel this month at almost £1.48p [2.36 USD] per litre, you're paying £0.20 GBP [0.32 USD] that's some saving, and hardly a loss on MPG - yes I get, and have got, since day one 32.9MPG [mixed] !

Congratulation from Me too..
 

Just had to answer your thread that I find it very interesting as there is very little feedback on people using Veg Oil/Bio Diesel. I take it your buying the raw ingredients from chip shops etc and separating it yourself but per goverment regs your only alowed to make so much.
From what I know on UK vehicles you've got to have a Bosch system, as their seals can handle the Veg Oil.
Anyway hope to here more from you on this site on your system...
Goggs...

Meant to reply a while back, but forgot all about it.

Now done 10k miles, all fine.

I get a lot of used cooking oil for free, but have to pay for some. As a private user, I can use 2500 litres per 12 month rolling period.

I sieve it, then heat it to remove water. Add the chemicals, mix, test, add more chemicals, mix/test again then wash and dry if all ok.

The CRD cant run straight veg unless it's adapted, and as you say, a bosch pump should(or more so a lucas pump shouldnt) be used to run straight or blended veg oil.

Fuel economy right now averages 25-26 mpg, but again, it's mainly used for the school run still and can be ticking over to defrost of a morning as well.

I've been running cars on SVO/WVO or biodiesel for about 8 years now. Some people have had some success in twin tanking common rail diesels but personally I'd only use bio in them. We use biodiesel in my wife's 2.8

Other than blocked filters, air leaks and one case of the gaskets failing on the injection pump veg oil hasn't killed any of my cars...falling asleep and driving them into a ditch, being side swiped by lorries, chassis rotting through ect is what has done them in.

The pre-common rail 2.5TD voyagers are great on veg oil.

Regards

Richard

CRD on Vegetable Oil.
 

Hi, I've a 2003 Crd here and like your thread on this issue. Do you's use one of these £1200 blue tanks with pump on top and Chemical. Had a check on internet and one American guy is showing making Biodiesel with only a 50 gal drum and no chemicals. Got to drain the cooking oil into the bottom of the tank he says and waxes etc float to the surface, or is it the bottom.
Ah so is chemical really neaded.
Goggs.

My processor was around £650 but it's still considered dangerous as it's a plastic tank, but it does the job.

I use Potassium Hydroxide and methanol to make it.

Would like to built a bigger and better one some day, but just dont have the time right now.

I'd also probably only use biodiesel in my common rail, as the cars not used for far enough distances to justify twin tanking it (start on diesel to heat up then switch over to straight veg oil).

As mentioned by tfb, the older voyager takes straight veg.

There's a big difference between biodiesel and straight vegetable oil. If you are interested then I'd suggest heading over to vegetableoildiesel.co.uk - Powered by XMB 1.9.11 for more info


Regards

Richard

Bio Diesel
 

Hi Guys, well don't think Gals into this thing....
Can anyone recommend a good Bio Diesel processor below £500. Notice Yorkshire Fuels have a Green oil drum type one for £345 odds that it says does job. But I'm watching two on E-Bay with these seperate containers in their kit. Checked out the site mentioned on here and well where do you start, do you need to go to night school to understand. People are probably put off with having to think about this, that, as all I want is a machine to put used veg oil in, switch on, add this, that, wait an hour and hay presto....Is this possible.....Gives some idea's, especially Scotsman4th, your not far away for advice...
Goggs...

Just a quick reply just now, kids to school and dog to walk.

To be honest, theres no quick fix. The nice shiny plastic ones that claim to do everything dont work. Even the one I bought is considered dangerous as the processor itself is made of plastic and if the immerser thermostat fails it could melt the tank pouring 120 litres of hot chemicals and veg all over the floor. Just remembered, it doesnt vent outside either.

I've done around 3000 litres over 2 and a half years with no problems though.

If you go on ebay and search biodiesel processor then select the near to far option, the first hit is actually the same as mines (assuming part of the usernames lyndsay and it's in Perth). I paid £600 for that one new.

Theres a guy on veg oil who's probably near you, he's just off the A7 in Edinburgh.

*sigh* I wish it was as simple as Yorkshire Green Fuels suggest - it would make my life a lot easier.

Making bio involves a fair bit of effort and a lot of mess (well, I end up making a lot of mess).

There are several different ways of making bio, I use the 80/20 no titration method.
This involves the following:
1) heat 100l of used oil to about 60 degrees C and keep it at that overnight. This allows the water to evaporate/settle out.
2) next day transfer top 80l into a upside down water cylinder (my processor)
3) get the oil in the processor pumping out the bottom and back in the top for mixing.
4) mix approx 16L of methanol (I have a line marked out on my mixing tank, which was measured to be the correct level, but I can't remember exactly what is was) with 600g of Potassium Hydroxide). This will need a good 10 mins of shaking to allow it to mix fully.
5) add the methoxide mix to the oil and keep it pumping around for about an hour and half
6) stop the pump and wait 20mins and then drain off the glycerol from the bottom of the tank. Take a 50ml sample of the biodiesel and let the glycerol settle out.
7) Mix the 10ml of the sample with 90ml of fresh methanol and see how much doesn't dissolve. The % that doesn't dissolve is what % of 600g of Potassium Hydroxide you use in the next stage.
8) mix that % of Potassium Hydroxide with about 4L of methanol (again, pre measured line on my mixing container) and mix it up.
9) Get the oil back up to 60 degrees C and pumping around and add the rest of the methoxide.
10) give it another hour or so mixing.
11) take another 50ml sample and let the gylcerol settle out of it.
12) mix 10ml of the sample with 90ml of fresh methanol and it should all dissolve and you'll be left with something that looks like white wine. If it does then the biodiesel reaction is complete.
13) drain off more glycerol
14) add 4 litres of water to the bio and mix for 15 mins.
15) add back in the glycerol you've drained out and mix for another 15mins
16) turn off the pumps and let it settle for another 30mins
17) drain off the glycerol, water and hopefuly most of the soaps will come out with it.
18) Heat the bio back up to about 90C and pump it around and boil off the excess methanol.
19) leave it overnight to cool down
20) pump it into a settling tank where the rest of the soaps and glycerol can settle out over the next week or so.

This is my method and I can't guarantee it will work for anyone else or you won't blow yourself up or suffer chemical burns in the process, but for me it produces water free, soap free, fully converted biodiesel.

I would like to see the results of one of the yorkshire green fuels type processors tested for full conversion and soap content.

Overall cost of my kit is probably in the £700-800 region, but it has been tinkered with and modified and changes and rebuilt over the years. Starting from scratch you could probably build the same or similar for under half that.

Regards
Richard

The biggest problem you will have is sourcing oil. It's becoming harder and harder to find. Better to do that first before you think about a processor.

As oils getting harder to source, the qualitys also dropped. A lot of my oil needs melted first then sieved to remove food particles (or in one case, sausages, tattie scones, egg shells etc). It can stink to the point of making you boak and I've still not got round to getting a satisfactory method of doing it. Currently a jeely pan on a gas bbq or a poker type device that heats up, neither very efficient.


My methods similar to Richards except I circulate the oil at temperature to remove the water in the oil and from 14 onwards I add water and drain until theres no evidence of soaps (benefit of a plastic tank, you can see them) then I circulate to get rid of the excess water.
Once theres no more steam, I set the timer for 2 hours, then let it cool and straight into the tank through a filter element.

You're welcome to come and see my setup, but if you register on vegoil put a post on looking for anyone in your area that were willing to show you their setup, I'm sure a guy called Terry's on your doorstep more or less. He's retired as well so probably avaliable most days.

Making Bio Diesel.
 

Yes Scotsman, Perth one I'm watching. Is that the same one that you have got. As to A7 thats Muirhouse Farm who sell everything farmwise including Bio Diesel.
Tfb, well I'll see if I can digest that instruction....
But saying that on reading the simple bits, 60 degrees is coming up many times, plus the chemicals, so lets see if I can decide to buy one or not...
I'll see if I can find this Terry...
Still wondering if its worth while, thing is I spend £60 a return on commuting to my work 150 miles away once a week.
Thanks guys,
Goggs.

Making Bio Diesel.
 

Ah yes, a problem might arise here if enquiring at fish friers.
Waste Transfer Note. Will the friers require this off you, otherwise the protection agency might think the frier is just dumping it, as some might try and do.
Registered with Scottish Environment Protection Agency as a Waste Carrier & Waste Management also comes up that you/ I may be required to do. Protection Protection.
Ahh, better to just buy it from County Durham at 0.40/0.50 per litre per Gumtree. Do people add their money together and buy a Cube of 1000ltrs...
These are bits that are not mentioned in all the forums....
Beginning to think I should be on a Veg Oil forum for this, Sorry.
Any comments guys...

Goggs.

Vegoil's definately the best place to go, but just quickly, you can register for a waste management exemption online (free) and you will need to supply a WTN (a lot simpler than it sounds).
I chose to register for a Waste Carriers Licence, theres people been told by government agences it's needed (me) and theres people have it in writing you dont.
Depends what office you call/email.

I source all my oil myself and to be honest, with the chemicals/power/hassle and running around, if I needed to pay 40-50ppl, I'd be running LPG (I budget 20ppl to convert, not fully worked out the electricity bit at that, it might be more).

The Perth one is exactly the same as mines.

Good Luck,

Rab

WTN is required, you can download a template of off the veg oil forum

In England there is no need to register with the EPA if it's for private use unless you are reselling it. Scotland may have different rules though.

The price per litre on the Yorkshire Green Fuels website is a bit out of date and a bit optimistic. I would guess that bio production costs are closer to 20p per litre and new oil is about 90p a litre at the moment. 40-50p a litre seems the norm for used oil from a reseller. There is still free oil to be had, but mostly of poor quality though it is possible to hit gold on occasion.

There is a chap on the vegoil forum up in Inverness way that often has surplus oil for sale. Post an introduction on there and see if anyone local wants to chip in on an IBC load - also most people are more than happy to show off their processing kit and methods.

Regards
Richard

Bio Fuel.
 

I just couldn't ignor the end to this thread from the reaction I got from you guys. Just got to reply that I can't do it, not allowed. Brought it up with my Doc and she says I'm risking it with the chemicals, as I've got Lung Disease and a broken vertibrea so prob on lifting containers.
Forby being an old git at 62 years old I do try to keep going and this idea of making my own fuel was a good idea.
My 152 mile journey to work each week is nearing an end due to above problems so hopefully, eventually shouldn't be using soo much. But my Motorhome will be when we drive into the sunset...
I'll still be on here though, too many things too miss from you guys to keep my Voyager going..
But good news, my son and a few of his mates are reading up on this Bio Fuel subject, so this has got somewhere. I may get some off him, yes if I buy the equipment he says.
Goggs...

Bio Fuel.
 

Hi just had to add this on Prosessors.
There's one on E-Bay just now, sitting at £1000, must have cost a fortune when new. From a bio making company, All electronics, wouldn't be surprised if it dances.
Instructions are to just put used oil in it plus chemicals and walk away, machine does everything. Is that possible.
Goggs...

If only it was that easy lol.