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96 T&C Tranny Problem is Anyone's Guess

  #1  
Old 12-08-2009, 08:51 AM
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Default 96 T&C Tranny Problem is Anyone's Guess

Hi,

I have a 41TE transmission in a 1996 Town & Country.

The problem is that the tranny shifts to 1st then to 2nd, but when shifting to 3rd itís like it shifted instantly to Neutral. If you try to hold the rpm for a bit it then seems to drop back to 2nd then try again to 3rd a couple times then trips a code (36 & 53) and stays in 2nd.

The clutch tests I ran fails on 3rd gear also as it doesnít even seem to slow the input shaft RPMs at all as if it was just a slipping clutch.

I would assume if the clutch itself was worn then the CVI number for the OD clutch would be towards one limit, but it's almost centered.

I performed the clutch air test at 30psi and observed the clutch piston move like it should.

I switched out the solenoid pack (with a used one), and the TCM initially which didn't fix it.

The pressures for the UD and OD clutches seem correct,
UD in 2nd = 130+psi
UD and OD in 3rd = 75-80psi

I went through the Alldata procedure for code 53, but it seems inconclusive as they don't indicate if the TCM will be in limp mode or not, which can produce completely different diagnostics.

I reset the fault codes in order to get the OD clutch to attempt to apply, and tried to interpret the flow chart from that, but it seems to be missing something.

I'm wondering how likely the OD clutch plates could really be worn and it's really slipping.

I really didn't want to take the tranny out if I didn't have to, and maybe only to find that the clutch is good, then what?

My dilemma is that there's conflicting evidence indicating that the clutch could be good or bad, and which is more reliable

Clutch good
CVI numbers not maxed to one end, not a lot of shavings in the pan, clutch test doesn't even seem to slow input rpm at all, shift to 3rd is like shift to neutral rpm revs with no drag, problem came on rather quickly I think.

Clutch bad
Line pressure good, clutch moves, OD accumulator piston and rings look almost identical to UD and seems to hold the correct line pressure. Fails OD clutch test.

Thanks in advance for anyone's advice.
 
  #2  
Old 12-08-2009, 05:48 PM
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99% probability you broke the overdrive hub or stripped the planetary carrier splines. the trans will have to come out!
 
  #3  
Old 12-08-2009, 08:42 PM
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Bummer

OK, so I'd rather have an answer that made sense then someone guessing, and that does make sense.

Would it be more likely that the splines were stripped, because the line pressure would be lower if the hub was broke?

And do you think the splines are damage on both mating surfaces or does it almost always strip one side and not the other. The OD hub is probably cheaper then the planetary carrier to replace, correct?

I'm trying to determine if it's worth fixing or just swap out with a junk yard one.

Could you also give me your opinion on how much effort would be needed to clean up the tranny since it's probably been contaminated with metal filings, and it has been driven a bit in limp home to relocate it.

Wow, my luck I get the worst case fix with all the potential things that could have gone wrong with this tranny, ha ha.

Thanks!
 
  #4  
Old 12-09-2009, 07:14 AM
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Glad to hear you used some decent problem solving skills to service this. hub has ZERO effect on the hydraulic pressures, it's nothing more than a drive part that the clutches are splined to and when the OD piston applies to lock the hub, the shaft off the hub isn't turning if it broke. I just fixed 3 1996,1997 minivans with this EXACT problem 3 broken hubs and one stripped splines. In all my years rebuilding these transmissions I've encountered this problem over 20 times even on LH car transmissions. So your problem is really pointing at this problem. It VERY easy to fix. as for metal filings, I wouldn't worry about it, the filter can easily catch them. so do a fluid/filter change. When I get these problems, I can get it fixed and back on the road in under 3Ĺ hrs. this picture is the input assembly. notice the 2 splined hubs comming out, they are concentric the outside hub spline shaft is the OD hub.
 
  #5  
Old 03-07-2010, 05:27 PM
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Hey 22chrysler,

just wanted to thank you for the advice. You couldn't have nailed my problem any more accurate. It's back up and running for only a $35 part, some tranny fluid, and about 1000 hrs of my labor, ha ha just kidding, but i'd like to put some money on a bet they you really can't do that tranny job in 3.5hrs.

The real question is what are you doing on this forum dealing with a lot of people who can barely change their own oil. Or as my daughter would say, you're doing good, which gives you a good heart, which makes you one of a few good people left in this world.

I have mostly Saabs just because of the safety factor when my kids started driving, but have always had a Chrysler van for the family car.

I've shot detailed automotive questions out on the Saab forums sites only to have it fall on deaf ears or someone state the obvious or something completely unrelated.

I think I'll stay with my Chrysler now I know there's a good resource out there.

Thanks for the picture too, you just happen to have one laying around, huh?

Kurt
 
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