I'm a "newbie" here, with a 2006 Grand Voyager 2.8ltr. diesel, 109,000mile on the clock, which I acquired a few days ago because of its size. I had to trade in my 2006 diesel S-type Jag. because it got expensive to fix.

I'm a retired ex-electronics engineer with analog and digital experience, so I may be able to help in some cases. I've owned, fixed and sworn at over 100 cars in my time. Of course, batteries are stock in trade to me, whether lead-acid, nickel-cadmium, NIFE, lithium-ion, etc.

Reading this and other websites shows that Grand Voyager batteries can be a pain, not just because they keep going flat, but because one loses the radio code if the battery is disconnected to replace it.

To NOT lose the radio code when changing your battery, you need to keep the 12volt rail at 12volts while you disconnect the main battery. For this you need a spare well charged battery and a pair of jump-leads. The negative jump-lead from the spare battery is clipped to a nice clean metal part of the engine, I used the fat post under a bolt hole for the plastic engine cover. The positive red lead from the spare battery is clipped to the large alternator charging terminal. But before clipping the positive on, check with a voltmeter or test-lamp that + 12volts exists on both the clip and the alternator terminal. I.e., the two have no voltage difference.
You can now the replace the vehicle battery in the usual way, being very careful to keep the +ve connector away from any bodywork, as it is now live all the time. You won't get a shock, but it's all too easy to set something on fire with vehicle batteries if you make a mistake. Put a polythene zip-bag over it if you're worried. Make sure the two jumper leads are firmly clipped on, because if one springs off, you lose your radio code!!!
Another warning -- make absolutely sure you connect the new battery the right way round. It is dangerous in this instance not to check first. Some batteries will have the posts on the "wrong" side, fooling you into thinking you've got it right already. Use the voltmeter/test lamp again. I paint the plastic around the +ve. battery pole red to be sure. If you connect a battery the wrong way round in more usual circumstances, you will blow fuses at best, or blow up the ECM's microprocessor at worst. Expensive. Aggravating.

So take your time, be sure of each step.

Writer's opinion of Grand Voyager battery problems:-
My experience of lead-acid jelly batteries is that they are fine in less demanding situations such as security alarms. They should never be used in vehicle applications where they are used as starter batteries. That 400 to 500amp. current demand from the starter motor will produce a short service life from a jelly battery. The worst are those batteries that are 'spiral' wound like the elements of an electrolytic capacitor. Stick to more conventional lead-acids. For a 2.8ltr. diesel engine, you'll need about 100 ampere-hour capacity to swing the engine properly, and give a long service life. (The battery on my 2.7ltr. diesel Jag. was TWICE the size of the one on this Voyager). What's interesting is that manufacturers seem to have moved away from the constant voltage running charge keeping the battery at 14.4volt, to the lesser 13.8volt which is the lead-acid "float-charge" voltage. Curious!

And lastly, my tests show that the least background current drain on the battery is by having all doors closed, and the vehicle locked using the key-fob.

Leedsman.

Oh, just remembered -- you can use the 12volt power connector LHS of the centre console to apply a digital voltmeter to directly and easily see what the battery voltage is before you start the engine. I have one hooked up semi-permanently now just as a monitor, to check (while driving) the battery situation.

 

One more caveat about the above. Sometimes you find another lead from the +ve. battery connector is affixed under the securing bolt-heat of the connector, so it becomes loose when you undo the bolt. Make up and use a short lead with alligator/crocodile clips at each end to clip that loose lead to the connector body, wherever convenient.
And away you go...
Leedsman.

 

Spiral, agreed I've made posts on here about what we used to call the Merc [£60 old lead acid] battery being best for CRD's as you have re-stated. These vehicles were designed as non compression and 99% petrol. Sticking a good VM engine and swapping the steering wheel over seems abut as far as Chrysler went, even the battery tray was not designed to hold a high CCD battery.

BTW - I've never lost the radio code only the pre-set station tuning when the battery has been off for 24 hours +.

 

Further battery data for Grand Voyager:--

When the above battery swap was finished, both newly installed vehicle battery and spare kept in boot/trunk were measured at 12.9volt. off-load.

After 36 hours installed, the vehicle battery read 12.45volt, the spare measured 12.8volt. This indicated an "invisible" accessory load at all-off and locked. Starting the vehicle was sluggish, but it started. Ambient temp very warm at 80*F.

After starting, driving normally produced 13.8volt. after 10mins., this fell to 13.4volt.

Conclusions:--

1) I think a better alternator output under it's constant-voltage charging system would be the 'old' 14.4volt. A new alternator from an accessory shop is quoted at £380.
2) The all-off and locked drain on the battery is too high.

Advices for the moment -- if convenient, use a trickle charger all the time the vehicle is parked to maintain a float-charge of 13.8volt. This method is employed in 12volt security systems using lead-acids and results in a very long battery service life. Having to do this is very poor electrical basics from the manufacturer. Manufacturers were getting this electrical stuff right forty years ago.

Leedsman.

 

- I bought [cheap as chips] one of these, never had a problem since
- £11.20, and I keep the £380 in my pocket and avoid sending the 'logic' sensors do-lally !
- search this forum for the word > parasitic < you'll find thousands of posts

 

More data to be able to check your battery's charge condition. These data have been verified as 'reasonable' . Obviously, this is the only way to establish charge condition, as you can't put an hygrometer down the hole!

100% = 12.73v.
90% = 12.62v.
80% = 12.5v.
70% = 12.37v.
60% = 12.24v.
50% = 12.1v.
Less = Useless.

The battery must have been disconnected for 24h. before checking, but these figs. will give some idea if you have a digital voltmeter connected to the auxiliary power on the Voyager's console. These sockets are standard cigar-lighter type. Digital voltmeters are very cheap cheap nowadays, can be had for a fiver in Leeds. And they are surprizingly accurate, so long as the internal 9volt battery is ok. (And before anyone suggests it, no you can't charge your battery via this socket!)

Further testing indicates that the parasitic/invisible current draw after "all off" for half an hour seems to be much more than expected. I've read on various sites anything up to 50mA., by my testing indicated much more than this. During float-charge testing, something like 100mA seemed more appropriate. Special trickle-charging for 24h. at only 100mA resulted in a prompt start, no sluggishness. The float charge voltage was 13.8volt. If you want to do this yourself, wire a 22ohm/5watt resistor in series with the +ve lead of any cheap charger using a small terminal block. Wiring a small switch across the resistor will enable you to revert to normal charging. This will put about 100mA into the battery all the time it's connected, thusly balancing out the parasitic current draw by the electronics. (Which you can't do anything about when it's been designed like that!)
BTW, far from affecting the battery badly, this constant tiny current will do it good. The boffins say that " dendrites" of sulphation in the lead dioxide reverse when there is a constant small current charging it. The benefits take a month or two to show however. BTW#2: Never let your battery get even partially discharged of you can help it. An automotive, or even a deep discharge type will shorten its service life if you keep getting down to 50% charge. Yet another reason for light trickle-charging if it's convenient.

I've come to the conclusion that this car will NEVER be able to withstand days on end of idleness. This is curious from a major manufacturer. My last cars in reverse order were -- Jaguar S-type diesel, Renault megane diesel, Citroen C4 diesel, beyond that I forget. None of these or previous cars had any problem with battery charging or loading or how long I left it unused. I never even gave it a thought.

Users of the Grand Voyager may consider wiring in an additional battery parked in the boot/trunk, you can then use a BIG battery. This is how Jaguar did it. That battery in the S-type was huge. This will make very cold starting easier too.

Leedsman.

 

It won't and Chrysler tell you precisely that even for their petrol [non compression - low CCA] engines, which is why the have a half pull IOD fuse built into the IPM. It, "withstanding days on end of idleness" will never work for these vehicles, its common knowledge my friend.
- er ok ! why is that then ?
- define all off please . .. at which point in minutes is all off - off ?
- you can get a big S6/7 AGM 800 over 80 (008 or 010) or MERC standard battery under the bonnet much easier

 

<QUOTE> Writer's opinion of Grand Voyager battery problems:-
My experience of lead-acid jelly batteries is that they are fine in less demanding situations such as security alarms. They should never be used in vehicle applications where they are used as starter batteries. That 400 to 500amp. current demand from the starter motor will produce a short service life from a jelly battery. <END QUOTE>

I have to disagree completely with the idea of using normal lead-acid batteries in diesels. In my case, the battery quickly broke down due to the excessive vibrations that result from the diesel engine. This is one of the reasons Chrysler recommends only using gel batteries in their diesels - they are designed to hold up better in high vibration situations.

The same is trues for almost all German car manufacturers recommendations.

Finally, the CRD VM engines do need an very large start up current and as far as I remember, gels provide this well enough.

 

1) One can't charge the vehicle battery from my Grand Voyager's power socket on the console, because I've tried it. It simply won't work. Likely there is a diode in series with the +ve connector. But I CAN use that socket to monitor the battery condition.

2) The best kind of starter battery is the AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) but this costs more, about one and a half to twice the price of a wet battery, which many people still swear by. Jelly batteries will have a short service life in engine starter applications, especially with diesel. I cannot comment on german manufacturers, only my current problem with this Chrysler vehicle.

3) It is generally most uncommon for domestic vehicles not to start after a week or two standing idle, unused. The last time I had any of that was in the 1960s.

4) The expression "all-off" means all controllable electrical drains (by the user) and after various checks and operations etc. have been done by microprocessors various, which also drain.This varies with the car, but is usually between 15 to 30 mins. Then it is safe to monitor the battery condition, and get a viable voltage reading.

Whatever, I'm happy to report that a 100mA trickle charge to maintain the battery all the time in float-charge mode certainly works with my Grand Voyager. Starting this morning was immediate and enthusiastic. Parking at the end of my journey for three hours had no effect on the battery (which read 12.75volt) and it started immediate again. I am now using a small regulated PSU which I think was for powering some game or other. Takes less than 10 seconds to connect/disconnect.

If battery charging was the only prob. to deal with on this vehicle! There appears to be an engine cooling problem as well, but this could be a jammed thermostat or a semi- blocked radiator. I'm happy to report the cause (when it's found) if anyone wants me to...I always expect there to be some problems with a vehicle new to me, because that's usually why the previous owner got shot of it! So long as it doesn't cost something outrageous to fix.

Hoping this explanation clears up any misunderstandings/misconceptions, and may I say how pleased I am that someone is reading my writings... I like this forum, because it's exactly the same format as the "Jaguar Enthusiast's Forum" to which I contributed for some years.

Leedsman.

 

HiYa Leedsman,

.1. It seems to work on my LHS socket, I'll test mine but I don't see why two Chrysler's would be different.

.2. Agree on AGM's and on spirals being crap, I've made posts on here to that effect

.3. I truly believe they swapped a steering wheel over and stuck a diesel in it and that's as far as they went. The thing works for our American friends who all drive petrol, our big heavy CRD's still have the crowded mini type 12 instead of 19 battery tray.

The same is true for brakes, a heavy but beautiful VM Motori lump in the CRD and parking shoes only fit for a pram on the rear. Ditto their brake size is unfit for a vehicle of this weight - unfit for purpose.

.4. Agreed, try leaving an interior light on and walk away, it switches off at 16 minutes. Its still 'polling' for a quarter of an hour after off & arm. Anything tested before that point will give an accurately false reading.

Jags, aye I'm old enough, had a [shared betwwen 4 Army] S/H 420G in the early 60's and a S/H 3 year old '66 3.8s which I kept till the mid/late 70's. The original 60 quid trade Merc spec batteries used in black cabs power their VM Motori unit ok. It's lifestyle that lets these motors down, my infrequent use of two trips a fortnight 15 minutes each way is my fault .. .. not the cars, but last winters prolonged - 5°C led me to test the little £12 solar :



and it worked for me in the LHS direct to pole socket, in fact its permanent, just sits on the windscreen and soaks in the sun even on winters days, as I said I'll stick my fluke on it and see what numbers [on mine] there are.