Chrysler grand voyager gearbox help
#1
12-05-2016, 04:59 PM
Chrysler grand voyager gearbox help
Hi guys new to the forum so excuse me if I get anything wrong. I have a 2001 3.3 auto grand voyager that I purchased the weekend with a fault allegedly of hunting/surging, when I test drive the car couldn't find the fault but only got to 50mph but thought it was revving high and seemed as if it wasn't changing up but then again thought it might be me as my old 1998 3.3 auto was a bit notchy changing up so thought it was just smoother and nice. Oh how wrong was I as paid the money drove onto a dual carriage way and it stayed in what I thought was 3rd doing 50mph maybe 55mph at 4500rpm ish at 60mph it started what I can only describe as surging / kangaroo effect down the road .tried cruise control and exactly the same but at 45mph even though revs are high as its not changing up it doesn't surge or kangaroo. I tried manually selecting 3rd but it didn't change so I'm thinking it's stuck in 2nd it goes in p r and d instantly but won't change up any ideas please as I've got it for Xmas pressy for the wife and it looks nice but she can't drive it as it is. There are no dash lights up.please help as I really want to fix it but don't really no where to start my diagnosis thanks guys regards paul
#2
12-06-2016, 02:43 AM
Hi Paul,
OK, need to come up with a plan to get you sorted for your wifes xmas present! I think you're right, the box sounds like it's only using the 'mechanical' shifts and not the auto shifts so that could point to a few things. The box sounds like it's in "limp home" mode to me which gets you safely home but you can't go fast, etc. Also beware, if it's driven too long in this mode it can cause other wear and tear to the autobox so best not to just keep pushing it if you can.
Firstly, check for fault codes, if you search up "key dance" you'll find a way of getting any stored codes by them displaying on the odometer, that will give you any initial codes (or any that were cleared before selling) and might point to a faulty part if you're lucky.
Unfortunately to deep diagnose you need a fancy scan tool (not your regular ODB-II tools do these cars) to get deeper info, so doing the key dance is the closest point to start.
Otherwise it's sounding like the solenoid pack or a wiring fault (less likely wiring fault I'd have thought since the shifter swaps ok and displays the correct position). If so, I think I'd be looking to get it to an autobox specialist as they'll be able to get it sorted asap for you. Where abouts are you as there are quite a few people here that'll be able to give recommendations of where to take it.
Hope that helps, sorry it's not more specific, some of the other guys who are better on the autobox will be along shortly and hopefully give some more pointers.
OK, need to come up with a plan to get you sorted for your wifes xmas present! I think you're right, the box sounds like it's only using the 'mechanical' shifts and not the auto shifts so that could point to a few things. The box sounds like it's in "limp home" mode to me which gets you safely home but you can't go fast, etc. Also beware, if it's driven too long in this mode it can cause other wear and tear to the autobox so best not to just keep pushing it if you can.
Firstly, check for fault codes, if you search up "key dance" you'll find a way of getting any stored codes by them displaying on the odometer, that will give you any initial codes (or any that were cleared before selling) and might point to a faulty part if you're lucky.
Unfortunately to deep diagnose you need a fancy scan tool (not your regular ODB-II tools do these cars) to get deeper info, so doing the key dance is the closest point to start.
Otherwise it's sounding like the solenoid pack or a wiring fault (less likely wiring fault I'd have thought since the shifter swaps ok and displays the correct position). If so, I think I'd be looking to get it to an autobox specialist as they'll be able to get it sorted asap for you. Where abouts are you as there are quite a few people here that'll be able to give recommendations of where to take it.
Hope that helps, sorry it's not more specific, some of the other guys who are better on the autobox will be along shortly and hopefully give some more pointers.
#4
12-06-2016, 03:04 PM
Hey man, Andy's correct definitely sounds like you're in limp mode, however a code read I'd agree is a must!
However this type of issue is common on the V6 auto's and is usually down to 4 things!
1) most often is the input output sensors. My van has just shy of 160K and is on its third set. A friends van that I often used, we put over 280K on that thing and I've lost count at the number of times I changed them over the years!
2) wiring harness which goes into the solenoid pack. This often hardens over time so rather than flexing as the engine moves it remains rigid and so pivots on the contacts. Its rare that these break because you'll usually have issues like you're having long before it has the opportunity to break however, its worth checking. Also, my usual fix for this is the cable tie it to the lower radiator hose. I've actually just done this recently on a friends van, and also the input output semipros because she was having the same problem.
3) bad earth straps. Cheapest way fixing these is simply to buy a couple of universal straps off ebay or Amazon, connect them to the negative on the battery and run one to a good earth on the engine and one to the body.
4) The solenoid pack, however, engine surging is usually more associated with the first three where with a solenoid pack failure it will often shift into gears but won't hold them.
This type of problem is conman across the whole Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep range and usually 1,2 and 3 are the most likely culprits, or a combination of all 3.
Anyway hope this helps.
However this type of issue is common on the V6 auto's and is usually down to 4 things!
1) most often is the input output sensors. My van has just shy of 160K and is on its third set. A friends van that I often used, we put over 280K on that thing and I've lost count at the number of times I changed them over the years!
2) wiring harness which goes into the solenoid pack. This often hardens over time so rather than flexing as the engine moves it remains rigid and so pivots on the contacts. Its rare that these break because you'll usually have issues like you're having long before it has the opportunity to break however, its worth checking. Also, my usual fix for this is the cable tie it to the lower radiator hose. I've actually just done this recently on a friends van, and also the input output semipros because she was having the same problem.
3) bad earth straps. Cheapest way fixing these is simply to buy a couple of universal straps off ebay or Amazon, connect them to the negative on the battery and run one to a good earth on the engine and one to the body.
4) The solenoid pack, however, engine surging is usually more associated with the first three where with a solenoid pack failure it will often shift into gears but won't hold them.
This type of problem is conman across the whole Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep range and usually 1,2 and 3 are the most likely culprits, or a combination of all 3.
Anyway hope this helps.
#5
12-06-2016, 03:21 PM
Hi all update I've just done key dance thanks to Andy's idea and here are the fault codes
P1684 battery disconnected in last 50 key starts (I didn't but when I bought the car i had to put code bk in the radio so it might of been)
P0700 transmission control system malfunction ( help with this as I have no idea what or where I'm looking )
P0108 manifold absolute pressure/barometric pressure circuit high input ( can someone explain in English please as its gone over my head😱
P01193 or P1193 intake airtemp circuit sensor high , above acceptable voltage ( again help please ) finally can I reset codes and then see if they come up again and if so is it machine only or a key dance again
P1684 battery disconnected in last 50 key starts (I didn't but when I bought the car i had to put code bk in the radio so it might of been)
P0700 transmission control system malfunction ( help with this as I have no idea what or where I'm looking )
P0108 manifold absolute pressure/barometric pressure circuit high input ( can someone explain in English please as its gone over my head😱
P01193 or P1193 intake airtemp circuit sensor high , above acceptable voltage ( again help please ) finally can I reset codes and then see if they come up again and if so is it machine only or a key dance again
#9
12-09-2016, 07:11 PM
Hi, Okay so there are a whole host of potential issues that may cause these codes so I’ll try to keep it as short as possible, however I’ll begin with the easy one. But before I do, I have to warn you with these issues, this van could very quickly turn into a money pit so my advise is to test everything you can before throwing parts at it!.
My first step would be to replace the ground/earth leads like I suggested earlier. All the above codes can be caused by bad grounds. I’d do this before spending anything on parts because you first have to establish if you are dealing with one problem or 2 separate ones.
Okay so if that fails, we’ll take a closer look at the codes.
P0700: This code often comes up with an input output sensor failure. Other things in the transmission can also cause this code however, the input output sensors are usually the culprit and the cheapest to replace. Also faulty wiring is a possibility so its worth checking very closely. However, if you still have your 98 and its an auto then just swap them out of that Its a cheap and simple means of testing them! They are both located on the front of the transmission. The left one is just below the airbox the the right one can be accessed by removing the passenger side wheel and inner fender guard. You’ll need a 1inch socket or wrench to remove them!
Solenoid pack, its easy to change, I did mine with both input output sensors in about 30 minuses. Its located on the front of the transmission directly below the air cleaner box. Its easy to spot because it has a bunch of wires going into it. Thats what I was talking about going hard and not flexing. But I wouldn’t even touch that until I had the other codes dealt with!
P0108 manifold absolute pressure/barometric pressure circuit high input: In basic English this sensor looks at the air pressure, or in the case of an engine the amount of vacuum in the intake manifold. This is how the computer determines, along with other sensors, how much fuel to squirt through the injectors.
A high voltage means that, either its failed, receiving bad information from other sensors, there’s a fault with the computer, there’s a wiring problem or there’s a major engine vacuum leak.
P1193 intake airtemp circuit sensor high: basically everything that I’ve said above applies here!
So this leaves you with very limited options without specialised diagnostic equipment, because there’s very little that can be done beyond some rudimentary multimeter testing to check the sensors and wiring.
Testing the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor:
This is located on the right of the inlet manifold (standing in front of the van looking in at the engine) Just to the right of where it says V6 on the plenum you should see a black plastic thing with 3 wires running into it.
First unplud this and right to left as it came off the sensor it should read like this. First is the signal, next is ground and then power. Basically you should be able to test the voltage, and the ground.
With the ignition on connect a multi meter to the power and ground wires; the voltage for the map sensors is usually around 5 volts.
If you don’t get a reading then set your meter to continuity, connect one probe to the ground wire again and the other to the battery – negative. If you see a reading then this suggests either a break in the wiring between the sensor and the ECM or a faulty ECM. If it not then its a break in the ground, however take care if you decide to run in a new ground as this also connects to the ECM and other sensors along the way!
If all is well turn the ignition back off and reconnect the plug. Now you will have to connect your multimeter to the connected plug. Often you can simply push the probes into the back side of the plug but if you cannot make a contact then use something like a straightened paper-clip or piece of stiff wire pushed in with the probes taped to it
You need to do this with the ground and the signal wires so as to take a reading from the sensor. Now once connected, start the engine and take a voltage readding. It should be around 1 to 1.5 volts. Next rev the engine and you should see the voltage rise. If it doesn't then this is a crude indication that you could have a failed or failing sensor. However it can also indicate a massive vacuum leak on the engine.
Testing the intake airtemp sensor:
Unfortunately I don’t have resistance specs for this so all that can be done is to test the wiring. Basically its the same procedure as above. Now you may only have 2 wires going to the plug, if so then connect your multimeter to the -neg on the battery and then test both connection. One should give you 5 volts and the other nothing or very Lillie. It it has 3 then follow the above procedure.
Next on the list is an engine vacuum test, ideally for a good engine you should see close to 19 inches. However if its lower than 15 then you’ll also need a compression test in-order to see if there's low compression due to a wron engine or a huge leak elsewhere both of which would confuse the sensors.
If the compression is good but you have poor vacuum them you have to begin looking for leaks. There’s a lot of vacuum hoses on there so the first thing I would do is take a look on ebay, there are several companies selling full sets of vacuum, hoses. They’re inexpensive and easy to change. If this doesn’t cure the vacuum leak then its quite possibly going to be the intake valley gasket. They are known to leak at around 100,000 miles although it rare for them to fail completely. Usually you see a drop in economy long before running issues appear!
Obviously this is where you will have to start spending money and only you will know at what point its time to give up. Realistically, you can pick up a good 2001ish for less than £1800.
At this point if everything looks okay then you have 2 choices. You can take it to a garage who can run a more in-depth test of you sensors and ECM/Computer or take a chance and start throwing parts at it. Either way you’re going to be getting into money.
The sensors run at anything from £40 upwards per sensor, intake valley gasket set, I was quoted around £110 from the dealer because it just wasn’t available anywhere else in the UK. Solenoid pack, £150 to £250 but again if your 98 is an auto then its the same unit. All of these items can be sourced cheaper in the States but you still have to consider shipping and import duties or you can look at second hand, although the problem there is you'll not know if the replacment is working or not. ECM you’re looking at a dealer for set-up as I believe they are coded to the Body Control Module.
Anyway, thats everything I can think of so hope you don't find it too daunting!
My first step would be to replace the ground/earth leads like I suggested earlier. All the above codes can be caused by bad grounds. I’d do this before spending anything on parts because you first have to establish if you are dealing with one problem or 2 separate ones.
Okay so if that fails, we’ll take a closer look at the codes.
P0700: This code often comes up with an input output sensor failure. Other things in the transmission can also cause this code however, the input output sensors are usually the culprit and the cheapest to replace. Also faulty wiring is a possibility so its worth checking very closely. However, if you still have your 98 and its an auto then just swap them out of that Its a cheap and simple means of testing them! They are both located on the front of the transmission. The left one is just below the airbox the the right one can be accessed by removing the passenger side wheel and inner fender guard. You’ll need a 1inch socket or wrench to remove them!
Solenoid pack, its easy to change, I did mine with both input output sensors in about 30 minuses. Its located on the front of the transmission directly below the air cleaner box. Its easy to spot because it has a bunch of wires going into it. Thats what I was talking about going hard and not flexing. But I wouldn’t even touch that until I had the other codes dealt with!
P0108 manifold absolute pressure/barometric pressure circuit high input: In basic English this sensor looks at the air pressure, or in the case of an engine the amount of vacuum in the intake manifold. This is how the computer determines, along with other sensors, how much fuel to squirt through the injectors.
A high voltage means that, either its failed, receiving bad information from other sensors, there’s a fault with the computer, there’s a wiring problem or there’s a major engine vacuum leak.
P1193 intake airtemp circuit sensor high: basically everything that I’ve said above applies here!
So this leaves you with very limited options without specialised diagnostic equipment, because there’s very little that can be done beyond some rudimentary multimeter testing to check the sensors and wiring.
Testing the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor:
This is located on the right of the inlet manifold (standing in front of the van looking in at the engine) Just to the right of where it says V6 on the plenum you should see a black plastic thing with 3 wires running into it.
First unplud this and right to left as it came off the sensor it should read like this. First is the signal, next is ground and then power. Basically you should be able to test the voltage, and the ground.
With the ignition on connect a multi meter to the power and ground wires; the voltage for the map sensors is usually around 5 volts.
If you don’t get a reading then set your meter to continuity, connect one probe to the ground wire again and the other to the battery – negative. If you see a reading then this suggests either a break in the wiring between the sensor and the ECM or a faulty ECM. If it not then its a break in the ground, however take care if you decide to run in a new ground as this also connects to the ECM and other sensors along the way!
If all is well turn the ignition back off and reconnect the plug. Now you will have to connect your multimeter to the connected plug. Often you can simply push the probes into the back side of the plug but if you cannot make a contact then use something like a straightened paper-clip or piece of stiff wire pushed in with the probes taped to it
You need to do this with the ground and the signal wires so as to take a reading from the sensor. Now once connected, start the engine and take a voltage readding. It should be around 1 to 1.5 volts. Next rev the engine and you should see the voltage rise. If it doesn't then this is a crude indication that you could have a failed or failing sensor. However it can also indicate a massive vacuum leak on the engine.
Testing the intake airtemp sensor:
Unfortunately I don’t have resistance specs for this so all that can be done is to test the wiring. Basically its the same procedure as above. Now you may only have 2 wires going to the plug, if so then connect your multimeter to the -neg on the battery and then test both connection. One should give you 5 volts and the other nothing or very Lillie. It it has 3 then follow the above procedure.
Next on the list is an engine vacuum test, ideally for a good engine you should see close to 19 inches. However if its lower than 15 then you’ll also need a compression test in-order to see if there's low compression due to a wron engine or a huge leak elsewhere both of which would confuse the sensors.
If the compression is good but you have poor vacuum them you have to begin looking for leaks. There’s a lot of vacuum hoses on there so the first thing I would do is take a look on ebay, there are several companies selling full sets of vacuum, hoses. They’re inexpensive and easy to change. If this doesn’t cure the vacuum leak then its quite possibly going to be the intake valley gasket. They are known to leak at around 100,000 miles although it rare for them to fail completely. Usually you see a drop in economy long before running issues appear!
Obviously this is where you will have to start spending money and only you will know at what point its time to give up. Realistically, you can pick up a good 2001ish for less than £1800.
At this point if everything looks okay then you have 2 choices. You can take it to a garage who can run a more in-depth test of you sensors and ECM/Computer or take a chance and start throwing parts at it. Either way you’re going to be getting into money.
The sensors run at anything from £40 upwards per sensor, intake valley gasket set, I was quoted around £110 from the dealer because it just wasn’t available anywhere else in the UK. Solenoid pack, £150 to £250 but again if your 98 is an auto then its the same unit. All of these items can be sourced cheaper in the States but you still have to consider shipping and import duties or you can look at second hand, although the problem there is you'll not know if the replacment is working or not. ECM you’re looking at a dealer for set-up as I believe they are coded to the Body Control Module.
Anyway, thats everything I can think of so hope you don't find it too daunting!
#10
12-10-2016, 03:44 AM
Hi again all, just want to say thanks to everyone who has replied to my post you have been a great help. I'm not very mechanically knowledgeable I can change exhaust brakes etc but engines gearboxes I can service but electrical things I need help, have a electrician and a lorry mechanic at hand with all the gizmos that are hopefully gonna help . Yes I do have the 1998 still and she's a auto so hopefully everything I need to fix 2001 model is on that, I'm gonna get codes reset by friend hopefully this afternoon or tomorrow then 're plug her to see if they all come back after spin around the block a hole 1.5miles and then if codes come bk then I will check the earth straps and swap sensors over from 1998 to 2001 hoping to sort it oh and input output sensors then go from there. I will update over the weekend with progress regards Paul