CRD injector cleaner
 

Hmm. well.. The search engine does not seem to work very well on this forum, so maybe this has been asked before, but here I go.

Old Mercedes diesels often benefit pretty good from using injector cleaner fluids in the diesel, so I wanted to use a flask in my CRD 2.5. But I always check the interweb first and I encountered several posts about injector cleaners not working good on CRD engines, only ultrasonic cleaning seems te work on common rail diesels.
My engine runs pretty well so I only wanted to try it to see if it could run even better :cool: but what is wisdom in this CRD case?
Wynns injector cleaner is a nogo on CRD? :confused:

Injector cleaner:--
It's also my experience that pouring injector cleaner into the tank doesn't work, this being with a variety of different diesels.

Mechanics use only one brand, Forte', a South African chemical Co.
They always pour some in the fuel filter, rather than the tank.
You can get it for between £12 and £15 for a small-ish can.

You could also use BP "Ultimate" diesel and Shell "V-power", both having cleaner in them, for which naturally you pay more. A good while before my MOT, I used the "Ultimate" for about 3 months. It went throught the MOT re. emissions ok. But I can't prove that the success was the cleaner.
An idea might be to run the tank very low, and then pour all the Forte' into it. This naturally has dangers of stirring up rubbish that may be living in the bottom of the tank.

One point about ultrasonic cleaning: How do the acoustic waves get up the pintle when it's closed? This is going to be where the crud lies, i.e. close to the hot combustion.

Hope this helps.

Leedsman.

There is a very good cleaner called BG244 that you can buy from powerenhancer on the web. The Archoil 6200 is good to. I noticed a big difference using low ash 2 stroke oil in the fuel! Quieter engine and a lot less smoke. I always run the GV on Shell V-Power derv as it has twice the additive package of normal Dino fuel as it's a GTL semi synthetic fuel... I should be able to find some discount codes somewhere.

2 stroke low ash oil is £2 for a 500ml bottle at morrisons! Cheapest I've found.

Hi tim. How much 2 stroke oil do you put in a full tank?
Thx

With it being so cheap I just pour thd whole bottle in when I fill up with around £120 worth of V-Power. But all you need is 300ml. 2 stroke low ash oil burns cleaner than normal diesel. Results are fantastic as it lubes the fuel pump with these low sulphur fuels...

Just remember to use the low ash cheap mineral 2T oil and not the semi or full synthetic stuff! You will be suprised the difference the engine note is! Much less diesel chatter at idle. In fact one guy came up to in the fuel station and asked what I was putting in my fuel tank! So told him about it and he went straight in an bought a bottle.

Using 2 Stroke oil in Diesel Fuel...Interesting...At £2 there's no loss I suppose...But is it an Injector Cleaner and would it fail MOT with it in Fuel.

Yes it does have cleaning additives in it as well as lube. It will not fail an MOT with it in at all! In fact it will help a lot. When I took the car in for ours the tester remarked on how low the emissions were! He'd never seen a GV with such a good result! :o

Google 2T oil in diesel fuel! Loads of threads about it on loads of forums like Merc/Bmw/Toyota ect...

AT the other hand I read this from Adding 2 Stroke Oil to Diesel :

There are a lot of arguments, mostly on motoring forums, about whether or not to add 2 stroke oil to diesel powered vehicles. The main argument is that this will improve the lubricity of the fuel, particularly low sulphur (50ppm) diesel.
Sulphur occurs naturally in oil. It is undesirable for various reasons. The main reason is that the sulphur from the exhaust pipe forms sulphuric acid in the atmosphere which results in acid rain. In the vehicle it pollutes the engine oil reducing its life. Using a low sulphur diesel reduces both the environmental pollution and the pollution of engine oil. In order to produce low sulphur diesel, the sulphur has to be removed and the process that removes the sulphur reduces the lubricity of the diesel. Diesel pumps and injectors rely on this to keep them lubricated.
Should I add 2 Stroke Oil to my diesel to improve its lubricity?
In short, you shouldn't. 2 Stroke Oil is designed for 2 stroke motorcycle engines, not 4 stroke vehicles. Vehicle manufacturers and fuel refining companies all agree that running 2 Stroke Oil in fuel is likely to cause complications and there have been reports of engine failures due to 2 Stroke Oil sludging up valves and injectors. As fuel refineries have produced lower sulphur diesel, so too have they added lubrication substitutes to the new diesels to the point that lubrication is now even higher than that of high sulphur diesel.
The vehicle manufacturers don't recommend putting 2 Stroke Oil in your diesel, the fuel companies don't recommend putting 2 Stroke Oil in your diesel, and the 2 Stroke Oil manufacturers don't recommend putting 2 Stroke Oil in your diesel, so why would you put 2 Stroke Oil in your diesel?
Better lubricity, cleaner burning fuel, cleaner oil and cleaner air means there is no reason for any vehicle to run 500ppm diesel instead of 50ppm, nor to add 2 Stroke Oil to aid in lubrication.

I've looked into this for years now. Merc took one of there cars across Europe(If I remember correctly) and were concerned about the quality of the diesel In certain countries so used 2T oil in the derv! If its good enough for them! Then its good enough for me! I've been using it for years now in 3 different vehicles(Toyota/VW/Chrysler) without any problems.

You pays your money! And takes your chance...

If people dont want to use 2T low ash oil in there derv then thats there choice! Use BG244 instead of make like Forte as it has a higher POA in than others on the market! But you will see that the main fluid in these are 28sec kerosene! And as most know diesel is a 35 second oil!... There will always be people and view's on both side's of the fence. Some would argue that using a fuel like Shell V-Power you shouldn't need any other additives! And I agree in the most part! But I like to go above that! Guess that's why our GV runs on Mobil 1 0w-40 with its very high TBN/Flash point and Viscosity Index and gets changed every 6k...

Actually I spend the past several hours reading thread after thread on the internet about adding 2stroke oil to diesel.
All the evidence I could find about the positive effects are anecdotally and talk about "feeling" more powerful, 'seemingly' less sound form the engine, and a slightly noticable advantage in MPG. But wherever I dig and look I fail to find proper scientific testresults. Why wouldn't there be any?

I read a lot of warnings about using the 2stroke oil in modern diesels as in CRD engines, so unless I dig up some more substantiated evidence I wait before using it :)

has anyone found a trustworthy thorough test report on this subject?

Quite so, Vmaxxer, one of the main reasons fuel suppliers add some processed veggie oil in about 5% proportion to the diesel fuel is to aid diesel injector pump lubrication since governments insisted the sulphur be removed from the diesel: At this, veggie oil is very good.

I've spent much time testing whether the various additives to both engine oil and diesel fuel work -- and I can answer in one phrase -- they don't, -- except with the case of "cleaning" diesel such as Shell's V-power, BP's Ultimate, and that's a "maybe", depending on whether the injectors actually need cleaning or not.

All diesel in EU and UK must be at least cetane 51, and that's all be necessary for a normal diesel, made to work with that fuel. The danger with diesel is water in it, algae, and other rubbish due to bad storage/handling.

Pouring additives into the engine oil in the hope of reducing friction is another lost cause. I've done the testing and there is no difference in fuel consumption. In fact, there is a danger of clogging the oil filter with some additives, esp. the PTFE ones.
The only way to reduce the main bugbear, cold-engine friction, is to warm up the engine first before you ever start it, such as with a Webasto coolant heater. This also reduces cold-engine wear. Absolutely obligatory with racing engines BTW.

If you want to reduce expensive fuel consumption, look at the following.

1) Have a diesel engine rather than a petrol. Also, because LPG is half the petrol price in UK, there is a cost-effective advantage with a petrol engine converted to LPG.

2) Watch how you drive. If your right boot is always heavy, you'll pay for it. Hypermilers get around the same as anyone else, but use less fuel. They also pay attention to the following...

3) Maintain your vehicle properly. Dragging brakes (a common one on the rear drum brakes with a GV.), underinflated tyres, jammed-open thermostats all add their demand for fuel.

4) Check your fuel consumption religiously at every fill-up with the brim-brim method, not relying entirely on the computed read-out. This gives you an early 'alert' if something is wrong, like clogged injectors.

5) Once you have everything right as far as humanly possible, forget trying to make it better on fuel. You will have hit the "brick wall". Trust me, you will have to burn that amount of fuel to get that vehicle around.

Leedsman.

As I said earlier... this might not be for eveyone! But I like to use it! But thats just me. You won't get anymore mpg out of the car by using it! I can only give my results in using it and the emission test results from the MOT. Now they could be low because I have used BG244 and the Archoil product's in the past! Or it could be simply down to the fact I run the car on V-Power!?.., or that I used a very good oil?

Tim, out of curiosity: But why would you use 2stroke oil if you already use Vpower diesel?
According to the theory they achieve the same result.

Another issue where I cant get my head around is that if the additives (the various flasks at the auto shops and the 2 stroke oil) are really needed on a regular basis, why wouldn't the car manufacturers publicly advice it? I never ever seen or read an advice from the main manufacturers and it would be to their advantage.
My logical sense dictates me that with the "premium" fuels like Vpower and such that void in the market is already filled. :cool:


But I am still intrigued and I keep looking for "official" test results.

Manufacturers like Toyota have there own brand injector cleaners that you can buy! But I guess that these are not made by Toyota, but another company for them. I use the 2T oil to help lube the fuel pump! I have noticed a difference in the engine idle note! Niw some might say... I'm hearing things! But as I was a pro classical musician working with most of the London based orchestra! I know what I hear... I read about this 2T oil for years on different forums b4 giving it a go! I all I can say us I like the results...I've used Millers oil additives over 15 years! And near enough every other one! Including Slick50 (PTFE, Teflon) That knacker my 1976 Escort! But that was way b4 I knew that Dupont never intended it to be used in the automotive industry!...

There will always be a good debate on the pros and cons of additives! But its up to the end user to see if they work or not. I think that BG244 and Archoil products work to clean and lube fuel systems... and that 2T oil does most of tge same, but at a fraction of the cost. ?.

I'm a sceptical cynic by nature ;) so I keep digging for scientific evidence and post it as soon as I find it.

Funny you mention Slick50 because this discussion made me think of that. I knew many people who (in those days) almost religiously promoted the stuff and some of them destroyed their engine with it in a later stage. I was so stupid to use it in my wet sump clutch motorbike and had a hard time restoring he bike to its former condition :D

Slick-50 I remember from the 1980s. It's a PTFE solution. The other was Molyslip, originally molybdenum disulphide, later with colloidal graphite added.

Ford tried plating the bores experimentally in one of their engines with PTFE in an attempt to reduce friction between pistons-rings and bores, which accounts for some 70% of engine friction It didn't work, as the PTFE coating wore off too quickly -- notice how quickly PTFE is worn off a saucepan? With pistons oscillating up and down thousands of times a minute, Ford's conclusions didn't surprize me.

Jaguar use "compacted-graphited-iron" (CGI) blocks in their engines now, this will prob. be for weight-saving. But there maybe some lubrication advantage from the graphite. Check it out if you like.

In the 1960s, Mobil fitted a Triumph Herald with radio-active piston rings, and then entered it in the "Mobil Economy Run". The car was fitted with sophisticated Geiger-counters. They checked radio-activity in the engine oil sump all the time from start-with-engine-cold. (Hunting for radio-active wear particles). This proper scientific procedure indicated that over 85% of engine wear happened in the warm up period, according to the radio-activity reading from the oil sump. My tests reveal that my own engine is more thirsty below about 60*C (2.8ltr. diesel), using the instant computed readout as a check over very familiar routes, and my own cyl. head temp gauge fitted as an extra to the vehicle's own coolant temp. gauge. Therefore you won't get the best economy from your engine until you get the engine over three-quarters hot. Diesels are partic. prone to poor cold-engine economy as diesel men have found during very cold winters! The high compression of diesel engines (around 18:1) must account for this. The boffins say that below 0*C., engine friction can be SEVEN times usual at cold-start.

Leedsman.

The Ford Capri Laser model had PTFE in there gearbox from factory! I remember it well as I had the 2.8 monster with the twitchy arse! When you look at 2T oil in diesel you have to think that its an oil like diesel is, although not a heavy oil! So it mixes in straight away with the derv and burns cleaner than diesel. Also the amount you put in is very small compared to the volume of diesel in youf tank.