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Liquid Petroleum Gas - Grand Voyager

  #1  
Old 08-25-2009, 09:20 PM
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Default Liquid Petroleum Gas - Grand Voyager

I was wondering if anyone had gone for an LPG conversion and if so were they pleased with the results/economy/performance.
 
  #2  
Old 08-26-2009, 03:58 PM
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I have a 1999 3.3LE Grand Voyager that has been converted to LPG (Dual Fuel).

I cannot tell any difference between gas and petrol (performance wise) but as for economy, it's the difference between 101.9p per litre and 52.9p so it almost halves your expenditure.
However, at 1500 for a conversion, you may need to do alot of miles to get your money back.
I filled up my gas tank which was 53 litres for 28. and got 158 miles from it. This equates to 14.36mpg which, with the gas being just over half price, is equivalent to 27.66mpg (financially speaking). Not bad for a 3.3l Automatic 7 seater MPV running around town.

Thanks
Mike
 
  #3  
Old 08-26-2009, 09:03 PM
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We have one from Prins Autogas. It came with a 70 liter tank, which results in a 50 liter load. The tank is installed where the spare normally is, and thus we are stuck with a home coming spare inside the car. That's probably the only thing we hate about LPG.

We have two converters to fill the tank in other countries, but there was a new one in Spain. One which we've not seen before.

We can do 300-350 kilometer on one thank, depending on the load and driving conditions. We normally drive something like 650 kilometer with fuel, and that in combination with the LPG tank gives us a greater range. Which is great when you are traveling abroad, especially with (young) children. Not bad for a 3.3 V6

And only VSI (Vapour Sequential Injection) will give you the same amount of KW's, unlike a Vapour Mix System (air/lpg mixer) which BTW is notorious for back fires (exploding air filter houses).

Oh, and we smoked four exhaust manifolds while towing our caravan (1600KG) so we parked our caravan in Tarragona/Spain and never used it again (it's for rent). I tell you two manifolds literally melted into a state which prevented replacement (they couldn't be removed, and thus we had them cut off).

p.s. You might get the same amount of KW's, but not torque, which to me is far more important – I often had to gear back manually!
 

Last edited by Master Chief; 08-26-2009 at 09:16 PM.
  #4  
Old 08-27-2009, 05:57 AM
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lets distinguish two types of LPG systems first.

there is LCS gas (lambda control system, or vapour mix system) which was made for cars with SPI (single point injection) engines.

and there is MPI gas system (or vapour seq. inj.), where each engine cylinder gets it's own gas injector.

both can be mounted on chrysler engines, but LCS is cheaper about 30%.
it is notorious for backfires, but only on bad engines, with old and cracked spark plug cables, bad general engine condition, bad spark plugs....
it is possible to get same power and torque with LPG, but then the fuel consuption is much higher.

couple of things to bear in mind before installing LPG:
-engine and especially engine electrics MUST be in very good shape.
-aviod no-name sysems, stick to the well known names and reputation. in europe, that's BRC, Landi Renzo, Tartarini, Prins.
-the best system is the one that you have a service near by, and they won't give you any trouble if you need help.

as for economy, I have 50 liter LPG tank in voyager 2,4.
that's for 350-400 km of mix driving, and it costs 30 euro.
equivalent 45 liter of gasoline costs 55 euro.
you do the math.
 
  #5  
Old 08-27-2009, 07:44 AM
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Let's not forget the up/downstream Labda sensors for vapor mixed – non-injection – LPG systems, which needs to be in top condition. However, in general, when your car idles nicely (bad spark plugs and cables will prevent a nice idle run) then you should not have any problems running on LPG.

n.b. The spark plug cap need to be adjusted for cars running on LPG.

We've had two backfires; both in the winter, when it was really cold and the humidity was very high. With a brand new car! Prins later concluded that to be a part of the cause, and they changed the software. Which we got for free of course.

I guess that was the bad part of being the first driving a new LPG system – that was back in 1996 for your info. Yet after 13 years of fun with it, I would prefer an VSI-LPG system over any vapour mixed LPG installation – simply because it has less problems, and greater performance, and no more backfires.
 
  #6  
Old 08-27-2009, 08:34 AM
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that being said, I hope you will appreciate my expirience.

I have it for 5 years (LCS), made 125 000 km's with it.
it was backfireing in the beggining, but after service and adjustment, I haven't had BF for 2 years now. at all.

a week ago, I changed my lambda. the old one was dead, mixture was allways rich, consumption was poor, but the car ran fine. downstream lambda has no significance.
spark plugs and cables are very important, becouse LPG is harder to ignite then gasoline. it has around 107 octanes (which gives you a lot of space for improvements).

I would allways prefer LCS over MPI for a simple reason.
LCS does not have injectors, and on MPI they tend to break at about 100 kkm. as they cost about 100 euro each (and on 3,3 liter you have 6 of them) for me it's a simple call.

master chief, one advice for you.
take it easy when towing a trailer. LPG produces more heat during combustion stroke then gasoline.
that's the reason why you burned your exhaust manifolds. high speed with a lot of load, that's not a very good combination for LPG.
weak spots in your engine are exhaust valves and their seats. they wear and overheat easier when driving like that and you don't want exhaust valve problems.
google VSR (valve seat recesion) if you want to know more.
 
  #7  
Old 08-27-2009, 08:57 AM
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But of course, and thus we both are happy campers with our LCS installation. We have now 315000 km on the clock, partly due to a full engine replacement (under warranty). Thanks to Chrysler.

And now a tip about valve care which unfortunately for the both of us, is unavailable for LCS installations.

We no longer go to camp sites and thus no more towing for me. We're now a lot quicker on our place in Spain, and "our" apartment offers a lot more comfort, and this for the same amount of money (both 80 euro a night).

I'll see if I can find a nice old picture of our car + caravan, and then you probably agree with me, right away, that this combo hurts our Chrysler a lot more than we want
 

Last edited by Master Chief; 08-27-2009 at 09:04 AM.
  #8  
Old 08-27-2009, 09:15 AM
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oh boy.

first thing: valve seat saver IS available for LCS vehicles. not like this one from Prins, but good one, I would say even better.
it's called Flash Lube, australian product, and they were the first ones in the bussines. it comes in both versions, one that works based on vacuum and one with electronic control.
the fluid itself also helps if you mix it into gasoline, helps prevent dirty gasoline injectors.

second: older chrysler engines are not sensitive to LPG, becouse valve seat materials are of very good quality. almost all newer engines and all japaneese engines need some kind of valve seat saver. turbo engines do not require VS saver.

I do not tow a trailor, my car is turning 240 000 km's. I really like when I pull out an oil dipstick after 10 000 km, and oil in the pan is more yellow then black. it has that nice brownish colour, even after so much km's on LPG.
 
  #9  
Old 08-27-2009, 02:20 PM
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Now I'm really confused
 
  #10  
Old 08-30-2009, 03:57 PM
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hi pal . i have a 1998 3.3 voyager with 149000 miles, lpg convert , but with a old mix system ,,,, it kept backfireing , so i changed the plugs and leads to lpg type, works ok . only now and then on a very long run it will idal a bit rough the nxt day u start up , just for a minute.. engine oil can be put in 2 another car after 2000 miles as its clean , no dark black oil , goes to europe every year , ive had it 4 years now , 300c alloys , other mods .
 

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