lost for ideas on fault please help!
 

Even the garage is confused over what to do next and im just fed up and sorry I ever bought the bloomin thing
I have replaced the starter plugs, replaced the starter motor, replaced the battery, but I still have the ongoing fault where I can drive it for a day or two, use it come back out 10 mins later and it will just not turn over, but each time as soon as it has had the jump leads on it starts straight away, and will continue to go for another few days, until again stopping and needing to be jumped.
The gear box is also really stiff on it and since the fault above has been making a shuddering and the engine sounds like its ragging its nuts out and then stalls.I have had this removed recently as there was also an oil leak (which is still leaking but im told there must be a pocket of oil somewhere because they have fixed the leak and it will eventually run out)
Any ideas would be most gratefully appreciated

Difficult without being able to look at it. Does it turn over slow and then faster when jumped? Has both battery cables been tested for poor connections voltage drops?

Has the charging system been tested? The cables area a good place to start. Maybe you have the infamous GM hot start where the solenoid get too hot after the car sits for a few, then the voltage drop is too much to overcome. On my GM (Chevy 454), I had to wait untile the truck cooled down or I did not shut it off for those brief moments. I ended up buying a super insulated solenoid for the starter and that solved my problem. Even though it had a hear shield, apparently it was not enough. What year do you have? What size motor?

Based on your use of the word bloomin and the fact you have a manual I am making the assumption that you are perhaps British. If this is the case please could you advise exactly what model you have, petrol or diesel and what year (I am suspecting it's a diesel)

Hi thanks guys for taking the time i will mention all these to my mechanic,
Glowplug how did you guess! i have the Grand voyager 2001 2.8 SE. i have had this on going oil leak and im wondering if this is something to do with the gear box feeling rough. i just feel as a woman the garages dont take you seriously but this has cost me a fortune so far, and i feel like scraping the thing.

taking the car to work this morning, it almost spluttered and failed but then caught into life. so im stumped

These cars are well known for oil leaks from the crankshaft seal. This is a seal that is at the back of the engine but hidden by the gearbox and cannot be replaced unless the gearbox has been replaced. In other words expensive if you take it to a main dealer.

As for the gearbox, well it could be the clutch not disengaging but they are rubbish gearboxes and well known for failing, primarily due to the oil not being changed regularly. Phone Chrysler UK with your chassis number as there was a gearbox recall on some early 2001- models. Check that yours has been done if it is one of the affected. However having said that it is not uncommon for them to be notchy. A good sign of the box failing is if you find it tough to change from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd and back down again.

As for the spluttering that could be anything but a good service may be on the cards. Water in the fuel filter is another issue with diesels. A dirty fuel filter or fuel tank pick up gauze is another. Unfortunately as a woman, and I hope you excuse the expression, you are going to be screwed by garages. There are very few ethical ones out there (my apologies to the genuinely honest ones).

With regard to the starter motor not working are you SURE the starter was changed. It sounds like it could be something referred to as the solenoid. This is an electro magnet that, when you turn the key engages, pulls back hard and makes contact with a positive feed to drive power to the actual starter motor. If your battery is a bit weak and the solenoid contacts are dirty it may not be making sufficient contact. The addition of another battery boosts current (NOT VOLTAGE) and this can overcome the dirt and poor connectivity.

Alternatively it could be a bad earth between the battery and the engine or that so much oil has been thrown up into the starter motor housing and has mixed with dirt that it is now causing the starter motor gear to stick (but again you say it was changed ???) It might also be worthwhile just taking the contacts off the battery and cleaning them with a mix of bicarb of soda and hot water. Then put some Vaseline on the battery terminals and then put the contacts back on.

I hope you understand these are only best guesses based on the symptoms BUT what I can honestly say is that a Chrysler Voyager is NOT the car for a mum with kids. You want a reliable people carrier then the Toyota Previa (old shape, heavy on gas though), Fiat Ulysse, Peugeot 806 or 807, Citroen Synergie or C8, Ford Galaxy/VW Sharan/Seat Alahmbra (ONLY the diesels). If you only need 6 seats then Fiat Multipla, Toyota Picnic but not the Voyager.

Hi
Post the last 8 of your VIN number here and I will check for recalls I can also get the vehicle info from that as you told me different when you posted about the oil leak.

Can you check mine also please? - number is 1U111958

Done, No recalls out standing on yours :) at this time.

Thats good - I think. Thanks Merlin - looks like I'm stuck with the gearbox as it is. Goes in to my local mechanic this weekend for a service including gearbox oil change, so if I'm lucky, it will improve (stiff change when cold at moment) - if not, I can live with it.

Stiff when cold is 100% normal. Only proper gearbox oils will give you a slick change when cold but that is because of their additives. Unfortunately those same additives are what destroy our boxes.

My box is stiff for at least 3-4 miles then it smooths out, still notchy all the time though but again normal due to the interaction of engine oil with the synchro hubs and the interaction of the gears themselves.

Thank you Merlin, it is 1C4GHN5M5XU133193

Glow plug thank you for that explanation!!! and no i dont take offence over the garages, i agree with you its something i will admit i know nothing about, i dont have any kids i bought it so my dogs would be comfortable on drives.

maybe i not putting into words properly what is happening, a brief outline is

firstly it leaked oil onto my drive way, its like a dark black it doesnt have a rainbow like quality to it.
so i took it to the garage who told me that he had
striped and remove gear box, clutch and flywheel.
replace crank shaft rear main oil seals
refit all parts and top up gear box with new oil,

i jet washed the drive way and noticed new oil was falling in the same place, then phoned the garage who told me it must be a different problem then, i explained it was in the same place and i had only just paid £400 for the repair, he told me to bring it back and his reason for it leaking is that there must be a pocket of oil somewhere built up when it was leaking originally and it will eventually run dry, i really feel that this is horse****.

then it wouldnt start and i was told it was the starter plugs, they changed these.
then when it happend again, i was told it was the starter motor, this was replaced,
then when it happend again i was told the starter motor had taken out the battery.so they replaced the battery
when it continued to happen i was told they had changed the pin in the starter motor,
now ive been told that it must be something else

so my car is still leaking, my car is still faulty starting, and my faith in garages is at an all time low.

i was worried in case the oil still leaking is coming from the gearbox and this is why it is so bad, and if at some point it will go bang on me, becuase it has no oil left

Your description of the oil leak was fine and I don't accept the "pooling argument". When he took off the gearbox any residual oil at the bottom of the gearbox and crankcase would have run out. What's more when he took off the flywheel to change the seals he should have wiped that whole area. Tidiness is important whether you are cleaning a house or fixing a car. A good mechanic would have steam cleaned the entire engine. ONLY by doing this can you isolate the source of a leak. If in fact the oil is coming from elsewhere, collected oil mixed with road dust will obscure the source. Whats more all fluids exhibit what is termed capillary action. That is they flow from high to low along the path of least resistance. Where you see the oil is not necessarily where it is coming from.

As for the starting issue what you haven't fully described are the symptoms. Was the engine turning over and just not firing, was there no turning and just a clicking sound or was there just nothing at all.

thanks again Glowplug i thought he was lying about the oil leak,

the engine would make a screaming noise and turn over, running down each time you tried it until it just made the clicking sound you suggested!!!

Hmmm......tough one. The screeching could either be from the gears on the starter motor slipping on what is called the ring gear on the flywheel or in very very rare cases the actual ring gear slipping on the flywheel.. The flywheel is a big heavy metal wheel that spins round at the rear of the engine. Its purpose is to over come the inconsistencies that result from the firing order of the engine and to result in a smooth running. It also stores kinetic energy which it converts to torque. When you turn the key the starter motor gear shoots out and grips these gears causing the whole flywheel to turn. This in turn causes the pistons to go up and down and the end result, with the addition of fuel is that the engine starts.

(some cars use a systems called a pre-engaged starter motor but that is outside the scope of this discussion)

Now the gears on both the starter motor (known as the bendix) and ring gear can wear and this causes them not to engage properly which causes an ungodly noise. Thing is the flywheel will always stop in one of two places. This is to do with the arrangement of the pistons. As such if one part is worn you have a 50/50 chance of everytime you start the car of hitting the worn part. On the other hand you have an equal chance of not hitting it which will be when your cars starts fine.

The clicking noise is as a result of your battery running flat and not having enough power to pull the solenoid (explained earlier) all the way back. Apart from what I suggested earlier if it were my car I would

1. Take the starter motor of and give it a damn good service


2. Take the gearbox off and have a good nose around. On some cars taking off the starter motor and getting under the car can give sufficient visibility to see if the ring gear is worn but these cars are difficult.

My advice find another mechanic. How do you find a good one, well as I have NEVER used a garage in my life I could not answer that one. But my father was a mechanic (and a damn good one) and what I can tell you is that there are 3 types.

The Extremely good and these are the guys who went into the trade because they were genuinely interested and enthusiastic not about cars but about the science of the internal combustion engine. These guys are very rare. Find one and you are A for away

The average who are guys with a good mechanical feel but whom were never going to be academic enough to do automotive engineering at uni and so were only ever going to be plumbers or mechanics. There are a few of them around finding one is going to be a good thing.

The bloody useless who are guys thick as a short plank, messed around in class and/ or were kicked out of school and for whom an apprenticeship was the best they could hope for. Far too many of these kicking about.

Word of mouth is your best bet. If more than one person regularly gives a glowing report on a garage not only in terms of price but MUCH more importantly in terms of a track record of getting the job done right first time.

If you wonder why I am so verbose in my answers it is because I like to educate. Knowledge is a very powerful thing and embued with it you are in a better position to make the right decisions. My wife can and has on many occasions removed, stripped and rebuilt huge 5 and 7 litre V8 monsters from American dragsters. How come, because I taught her as racing used to be my life. Having kids now she no longer fettles around but when I am away globe trotting on business and she needs to have something done she certainly does NOT get ripped off by the BS that garages try and feed her.

Hi
Yes you have 1 open recall and that is a D17 clock spring recall but nothing to worry about until you have a air bag warning light come on or horn stops working then take it to the dealer. Just a note for future you have a 1999 GS voyager 2.5 TD ENC engine gearbox is a DD3

Merlin thank you for that most apperciated but mine is definately an SE on a W reg. which i thought was 2000 / 2001??

Glow pulg i really apperciate everything you have taken the time to write for me i honestly do, it gives me that lttle bit more credibility when speaking to them even though i am reading your words :D so thank you

i have bitten the bullet and it is now in with the main dealer for diagnostics.

what i dont understand is that the garage industry seems to be the only one that does this to women :confused::rolleyes:

time to throw in the towel, ive had enough of it now, im just going to see if i can scrape £1500.0 for it on ebay to see if someone wants to have a go at fixing it, the same low mileage as mine 80,000 are going from between 2900 and 3495,

so thanks for all your help guys, but i wouldnt touch Chrysler again!

Don't you believe that for one minute. I am in the IT industry and trust me it happens here as well and in plumbing and in building and with electricians etc etc I could go on. Whenever you have someone who sees they can make a few extra bucks off the ignorance of another you can bet your bottom dollar they will do it. What's more it is definitely not only women. There are guys out there who are as clueless when it comes to cars as any woman. The only thing is garages are a bit more reluctant to try it on with a guy 'cause they just don't know. BUT once they realise the guy is a car dummy that's his number up and the dollar signs start flashing like the lights outside a Las Vegas whore house.

Education education education. The more you have the better armed you are. The Internet is a wonderful place and trust me pretty much everything you could ever want to know is on it. You just need to take the time.

Best of luck and please let us know how it goes.

Yours was registered in 2000 but is a 99 model year. What did the dealer say? It’s not Chrysler at fault more the garage you have taken it to.

I have sent you a PM, but just in case you don't see it. If yours is a Grand Voyager and if you are close to the Surrey area I may be interested. Mine is the standard Voyager and I need more boot space.

Well, sounds like you got a duff garage.

First issue is to get the starting problem sorted, I would recomend using a well recomended auto electrician, as it sounds like you have an earth fauly on the starting system, and possibly some other problems (mechanical).

As for the leak, nothing stopping you getting out with the torch, look in through the engine bay to where the oil is dripping from, and trace it from there. But it sounds like you got to get the starting issue sorted before you can go elsewhere.

A main dealer may be expensive, but it should get sorted fast.

hi there ,dont no if ur probs sorted yet but if not i had exact same electrical prob with my 2002 gv 2.5crd.finally resulted in alternator shot thru,doesnt always trigger warning light,waits for engine management to pick it up. new alternator no probs for 3 months.2nd hand 1 with 65k on it cost £95 from charltons in cambridge or new 1 for £270 only from dealer