Tracking...
 

Well... I have the Goodyear UltraGrip 8 Winter tyres fitted to our GV and thought I'd better get the tracking done! As the summer tyres were badly worn on the outside edges.The guy did it 3 times! And still couldn't get it to track up correctly. He said it should be +1 (Not sure what that means). When you have the steering wheel dead straight the car will wander off to the right! The on another straight road the steering wheel has to be turned slightly to the right to keep the car in a straight line. The track rod ends have very little play in them! And the inner steering rods are also good as changed about 6 months ago.

The mechanic isn't happy with the results and has asked me to take it back to him in a couple of days to check again. Does anyone know what could cause this? And what the tracking figures are? I really want to get good use out of these winter shoes.:cool:

Could be your stabilisation bars and/or the rubbers of the front sway bar, I changed mine and I lost the "clunck clunck" sound on rough roads and the car steers 250% better and straigther.

Hi...

Did you change these to Poly or just the normal rubber ones? Is the stabilisation bar the torsion bar? :confused:

The only thing that's going to affect your tracking is your steering gear including end ball joints and control arms. Struts form arc/turning movement only. Stabilizer bar tries to keep control arms uniform. So if your control arm joints are good its your steering gear end ball joints. Thinking here your needing to try another garage before he asks for Blood samples in jars.

Okay... So inner steering rods okay! Track rod end (Drivers side) has little play in it! He checked near side and said that was okay. :eek: confued :(

Is anyone else having tyre wear issues on outside edges?

Dunno the rubbers where black :D
My GV steers a LOT better/straight since I changed the stabilisation bars, but I indeed don't know if it can influence the tracking tho...

Note that the issue of little play multiplies as arm gets longer. If you know what I mean...I'd get it replaced.

I'd like to add that play in one of the track rod ends, means that the wheels are going to go into Toe in configuration much more Under Load. And not so much under test.

One of the first things I used to do with mysterious steering problems was to have someone else drive the vehicle while I followed in another. Sometimes in the suspect vehicle, the rear wheels weren't following the front wheels precisely, i.e. slightly to one side, or "crabbing". Driving the suspect vehicle yourself, you can't notice crabbing.
I've not seen vehicles crabbing lately, but it was quite common years ago.

Crabbing can be caused by a previous shunt/accident in which case the chassis isn't quite straight. I had a long straight plank which I placed against the front and back wheels after adjusting the steering wheel for best dead-ahead travel. If the steering wheel wasn't in the dead-ahead mid position, then something was wrong with either the wheel alignment, steering joints, or chassis straighness. Sometimes the vehicle had been bashed against a kerb by someone else driving it (and saying nothing) resulting in slightly bent parts around the steering.

Another trick to establish straightness of chassis is to measure the two diagonal distances between front and back wheels with a tape measure: They should of course be identical, down to a millimetre or so. (There are odd vehicles where this doesn't apply, like the old Renault Dauphin)

One thing I learned in those days was about cheap far-eastern tyres I tried -- they always seemed to want to roll down the camber of the road (to the left in UK). Substituting good quality american, british or continental tyres fixed it immediate.

Leedsman.

Cheers guys for all your info :) I will be taking a good look at the car over the weekend now. Funny how you say about uneven wear on the rear tyres if you have been involved in a rear ender! My last car was a Toyota Avensis T180 2.2L Diesel estate that had uneven rear tyre wear. Bought that 2nd hand and had to have 2 new engines fitted due to HG fail. All because of carbon build up that in turn caused gasket shuffle and the engine was toast! As the block warped. Thank goodness for Toyota's goodwill 112k or 7 year extended warranty. This would gave cost 13k other wise.

Couldn't stand the worry about a 3rd one going outside the warranty! So got rid and bought an old skool Celica gt4 205 import. Lush to have a 4 wheel drive sports car for Dad :)

*UPDATE*

So took the Van back in this morning as you still need to have the steering wheel slightly to the right to keep a straight line! Tech adjusted it and took it out! Still pulling left! So back on ramps to check measurements! And it had gone way out!!! So adjusted it again and made sure ever nut and bokt was tight! Still pulled again to the left! Re checked the measurements again! He is at a loss to know what to do! Everytime it is adjusted, it kicks back out! Is this a steering rack problem? How could I check it if it was? Any thoughts guys? :(

Have you made sure that the track rod ends have the same amount of threads showing on both sides as this can throw the tracking off? If not get them so they are equal then attempt the tracking again.
Also check for backlash by turning the steering wheel slowly until the wheels move there shouldnt be much movement in the steering wheel before the wheels move.

Regards Dan

P.S sorry if im stating the obvious but are the tyres the same brand and of equal pressure??

Its all down to setting up your steering rack. Setting up your steering rack with the engine running that is with no load on the track rod ends. What happens is the steering rack centres. You would be going straight ahead at this point. So now reconnect track rod ends, adjusting them so wheels are going straight ahead with correct toe out.
Just imagine turning your steering wheel slightly from straight ahead and adjusting your wheels direction so they are straight ahead, well steering will try to straighten.
Beginning to confuse myself.

Confused the heck out of me to mate! Lol... okay! So... The tech had the engine running the last 2 times I've been there. So he has to make sure the steering wheel is straight ahead. Then remove both track rod ends! Then replace them back on in equal amount of turns with correct toe out! This then should now work? Is that correct mate?

Hey Dan...

Okay... What Goggs has said sounds very similar to what you've said to me. They tyres are all brand new Goodyear UltraGrip 8 Winter tyres with 36psi all round. I remember when the inner steering rod was changed they had to remove the track rod end on the drivers side! This is where the problem now is. Starting to sound like they didn't put it back correctly when that was done to me! :(

Steering rack centres with engine running as rack is being pressurised. As to Steering wheel you can't go by how it looks as it may have been taken off at one time and not put back right. Set up wheels strait ahead, how, need to use tracking gear culminating on using rear wheels. Toe it by equal threads left/right at rod ends.
All square work.
Thinking about this, my steering wheel is slightly off, car is not pulling to one side and has been professionally tracked. So if I set the steering wheel right looking by adjusting the track rod ends (left rod + right rod -) would it pull to one side.
Somehow I don't think it would. But I'm hoping you get it sorted and tell us the true answer.

See if you can borrow a set of wheels and try them out so you're not using your present tyres. I know for a fact some tyres will 'roll down the camber' like our company vans did in the 1970s. Turned out it was the tyres causing it. When one van had two front tyres fitted locally -- that slight drift to the left it had was gone. Also, many tyres have to be fitted to rotate in a certain direction these days -- has that been properly done, if required? Is one the wrong way round, i.e. a different rolling resistance?

Leedsman.

You could switch the rear wheels for the fronts and see if anything changes but I do suggest completely unwinding both track rod ends then put them both back on with equal turns until the gauge reads zero toe in/out (won't hurt to put a bit of copper slip on them for the future). Then proceed with the correct measurements.

I think as work has been done before and only to one side this could be the underlying issue. Usually tracking is done with the engine off with the steering wheel clamped in the straight ahead position.

Hope you get it sorted as this is a pet hate of mine, fighting the steering for a long run.

Dan

EDIT: whilst I thought of it and forgot to mention, could also potentially be a sticking caliper?

I've had my 2001 Voyager CRD from new, so 13yrs and counting. It has 156K miles on the clock.

I can say for a fact that it has always worn the outer sides of the front tyres before the rest of the tyre, not badly, as it would when the tracking is out, but I've had it set up a few times, including when I fitted two new track rod ends and it's always the outer of the front tyres that wear first. My tyre guy says it's a big heavy car, and the road camber just works the edges a little harder then the rest. I'm also using 36psi all round.

I just rotate them onto the back after a while. I'm probably getting about 30K miles plus from the front's and 40K + miles from the rears I'm using Toyo open country & happy with them, it's the 3rd set I've had.