HHO works. your taking water and electrolysing it to make O2 and H2

now when I say it works I mean it "makes" O2 and H2

does it do what you think it will do? yes. your engine will burn H2 just fine.

Will it improve your fuel economy? not a chance. at least not by any extent that you can measure it (2 decimal places)

Your using an extremely inefficient engine to turn an extremely inefficient alternator to run an extremely inefficient electrolyser to make a miniscule amount of H2 to feed back into and burn in your Extremely inefficient engine.

The only way you MIGHT get a net gain is to run the HHO generator on its own battery pack SEPARATE from the car.

Now your trading Cheap Electricity at home to run the HHO. in theory this could work.

but now you have another problem. my 2000 voyager is a 3.3 liter engine. so it "pumps" 3.3L if gas every 2 revolutions if I recall correctly.

at "cruise" I am turning 1600 rpm (I drive slow) so every minute my "air pump" (which is what an engine really is) pumps 2640 liters of "GAS" (air" through itself.

even the "BEST" made HHO gensets have trouble making 1 Liter a minute.

and of that 1 Liter a minute only 20% of that is H2 by volume. so your making 0.2 Liter of H2 per minute and feeding that into an engine that is moving 2640 liters a minute.

I think at this point you can easily deduce your engine is not even going to "FLINCH" at that. its less than a "gnat" on your windscreen.

to be effective you would need at least 20 of these HHO gensets and a battery pack that would exceed the mass capacity of your chassis.

an EMPTY big rig might be able to make use of such a setup. Think giant BLADDER in the trailer. you generate HHO as you drive down the highway and then "USE" the stored HHO when you have to "accelerate" to offset your gasoline requirements. but man would that be complex :-) kind of an HHO Hybrid.

So yes they work. but the gains are so tiny you will not have the means to measure them and then ONLY if you do NOT power it from your car's alternator at which point you will very likely LOSE fuel economy.

since as with ALL energy transfer it takes more energy to make the H2 than you can get from the H2 and since your CAR Is making the energy it has to be lossy.

Yes I have built a pretty robust HHO rig (just for fun) twin deep cycle batteries ran it for about 20 minutes before depleting the batteries. Zero measured improvement in fuel economy. It was fun to do but won't improve your fuel economy.

 

U will need the EFFIE to have the O2 sensor fooled to the PCM because teh amount of o2 being produced by the HHO system the PCM will just bring it back to 14.7 to 1 air mix that's why it did not work
My HOO rig makes 2L per min using a flow gauge the mount of energy the HOO system is only 15 amps and the 3.3L idea is not correct if u pumped 3.3L of gas every 2 revs u would be out of gas in less then 4 min the 3.3 is the amount of space that from BDC of a piston to TCD the volume of air the engine can compress not fuel.

 

no you do not need the EFFIE. 14.7 to 1 is what your SUPPOSED to run.

if your running less than 14.7 to 1 (for whatever reason) than any improvement you see is a result of running LEAN not of adding the H2

if you can safetly run lean GREAT do it but don't proclaim that as proof your H2 did it.

I find it hard to believe your getting 2 LPM out of 15 amps. besides using that in a car I would be curious to know how you did that as I have other needs for making H2 and .4 LPM of H2 is AMAZING

I think you need to reread my post.

let me quote myself again

"I am turning 1600 rpm (I drive slow) so every minute my "air pump" (which is what an engine really is) pumps 2640 liters of "GAS" (air" through itself."

I never said it was pumping 2640L of Gasoline.

I guess the question is how much H2 do you need to provide say 10% of your car's horsepower? what "volume" is that amount of H2 ? (I honestly do not know)

I would guess an awful lot. H2 is a VERY LOW DENSITY fuel in gaseous form

now I do know its possible to fit enough H2 in a V8 engine to "RUN" the engine. I have seen an engine run off straight H2 out of a hose from an H2 tank.

but the amount of H2 I saw them pumping was on the order of around 10-12 liters a minute AT LEAST.

which means you would need to generate at least 80 LPM of HHO to get the same results.

this tells me you need about 8 LPM to replace 10% of your car's power production IE to see a 10% reduction in gasoline usage. (obviously smaller more efficient engines would need a lot less)

my geo cruises at 2100 rpm (and thats an XFI with 3.79:1 tranny and over sized tires so I am effectively running 3.52 to 1 ratio.

and I am still pumping 1000 LPM through the engine. so I would need what? roughly 4-5 LPM of HHO to supplement gas by 10%.

that is a lot of gas.

remember 80% of your HHO by volume is 02 only 20% of H2

your computer does not need to be tricked. if you inject o2 into the engine your car will simply "suck less air" to compensate.

if it add fuel your power goes up and you will naturally back off the gas pedal doing the exact same thing.

if your "leaning out" with an EFFIE than "THAT" is why your seeing gains and you should be asking yourself what damage (if any) your doing to your engine.

easy test. kill the HHO but leave the EFFIE going. I bet you see the same gains.

 

"no you do not need the EFFIE. 14.7 to 1 is what your SUPPOSED to run." This is what the PCM tries to get to but never will fully

For comparison Natural Gas has about 1000 BTU / ft3 & Propan about 2500 BTU / ft3.
28.32 Liters to 1 cubic foot. So, if 1 cu.ft. of HHO equals 2000 BTU's (est), then 1 liter would produce 70 btu's There is your 80 per L here is your video of 1.5L per min

Best hho dry cell design Test Videos

Yes the computer has to be tricked U said it yourself a mass amount of the chemical being produced is o2 so if an increase on volume of o2 is being burnt the upstream o2 sensor will read there is more o2 in the system is it will add more fuel to get the 14.7 back down to where it wants to be. SO with that said the EFFIE is installed and in turn trim down the O2 sensor return from the HHO to get it back to what it would be with out HHO.
I have first hand watch this work on my chrysler I have a DRB3 I installed a toggle switch to turn it on and off at as I want.
On the scanner the normal reading for my neon long term fuel adaptive is +4.9% fuel trim I turn on the HHO and it drops down to -1.4 then after 5 min of running it will get back up to +4.9 with short term adding +10-+15 % U can also feel the performance change when u turn it on then off the computer has to ADJ it to where it wants to be once the system is on and turns off.


"our computer does not need to be tricked. if you inject o2 into the engine your car will simply "suck less air" to compensate."

This is not true The volume of air that is going into a Speed density car system is always fixed it does not change. The throttle body will allow only X amount to enter the intake based off what U step on the throttle the PCM controls fuel only not air.

The PCM is designed to have a range of +30 to - 30% fuel trim anything past those and u get the fuel system rich/lean codes.

 

I just lost 30 minutes of typing. I am not typing it all over again.

suffice it to say here is the basics. your making 0.03296 grams of hydrogen per minute.

per unit mass hydrogen has about 3 times the energy as gasoline.

at 60mph I burn 1 gallon of gas in 25 minutes (25mpg) so in grams that is 110.18 grams per minute of gasoline.

you need 36.728 grams of hydrogen to equal the energy I am getting with gasoline.

so to offset your fuel by just 10% you would need to make 3.6728 grams of hydrogen a minute.

your making 1/111th that much hydrogen. your not even making enough hydrogen to offset your gasoline usage by 1%

you would need "TEN" of those generators and 150 AMPS of power to come even close to making a real DENT.

that "IS" interesting though. 6 deep cycle batteries could in theory run your genset times 10 for 30 minutes. that is enough to cover the "acceleration" time and some of the "cruising" time for my commute and 10% of my gasoline is a lot more expensive than the electricity to charge that small battery array.

but man the maintenance involved.

so when your running TEN of your 2 LPM generators then you might have something.

switch to a smaller engine and you can use 5 of your gen sets and 75 amps of power. Much more feasible.

 

I am sorry MY BAD I goofed up the math.

you would need ONE HUNDRED AND ELEVEN of your HHO Generators to make 10% of your fuel needs. ie to reduce your gasoline usage by 10%

wow yeah that is not going to work.

this is the straight up BTU math. am I missing something?

 

U do what u want its your car the proof is in the pudding that's all I can say.
I will have date for a months worth and upload it.

 

There is no u do what you want etc.. I simply listed the math. irrefutable math without a very good explanation. you need 36 grams of hydrogen to run your car for 1 minute at average fuel economy. its that simple. your making .03926 grams per minute.

this is a fact. not an opinion.

if you want to show "proof" here is what I would consider proof. not solid proof but enough to get me curious.

on video on level ground with the cruise control set uninterupted video.

2 gauges live in real time.

Instant fuel Economy or GPH for the gasoline side (injectors) and Air Fuel Ratio Actual (not from the onboard ECU)

do that and turn your HHO rig on and off so we can see the effect it has in real time.

Data means nothing. I can type up a months data in minutes.

you have shown no pudding. when I can get in the car turn the key and see the effect THAT is pudding :-) hehe

I WOULD LOVE for this to work. I really would. but not ONE SINGLE person has been able to build an example that survives independent testing. ie give it to someone else to try.

not one single example. to me this means its an extraordinary claim and therefore requires extraordinary proof.

the math just does not add up. now THEIR ARE other factors at play besides the "pure math"

I do believe their IS something to HHO helping the engine burn fuel better especially this nasty Ethanol laced fuel (at which point the HHO would not be improving Fuel Economy but RESTORING LOST fuel economy due to Ethanol) which would make me a very happy critter! I lose a LOT of money every year to ethanol.

and I have solid repeatable reproducible data to back up my E10 losses in excess of 20% and approaching 30% on some vehicles!

my previous voyager was hit hard by E10. I have 70,000 miles at 28mpg and when we switched to E10 I had to HYPER MILE the crap of that van to get 20-21mpg.

put some E0 in it and its 28mpg again without even trying hard. that is what? 28-29% drop in fuel economy (if I did that math right) talk about an OUCH (I drive 40,000 miles a year so it hurt and hurt FAST)

so if HHO can help with that you can bet I want to be all over like stink on .... you get the idea.

 

ok once I get the time I will make that video for ya I don't have cruise control on the neon but do have a scan gauge that shows instant MPG RPM TPS volts and MPG I will rig the switch to be inside so I can turn it on and off at will.

 

RPM should be a decent stand in for cruise. ie if someone lets off the gas the RPM should drop etc..

I am assuming this car otherwise functions properly? ie if your going for fuel economy you should already be getter better fuel economy than the EPA estimates. :-)

Look forward to the video.