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Question on Batteries

  #1  
Old 01-18-2012, 05:08 PM
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Default Question on Batteries

- if the Grand Voyagers are a pig for starting in the cold UK
- and if a battery is a store of energy / starting punch
- why are in the UK do they suggest Voyagers use the Optima 4.2 at about 160 ?
- instead of a similar or better spec TAXI battery at half that price

The Optima SPIRAL claim is that :
- It'll last up to 2 times longer than other batteries.
- It can sit unused 3 times longer than other batteries.
- It is over 15 times more resistant to vibration than other batteries.
- It's nonspillable and can mount in almost any position.
- It provides more power in the initial 1, 3, 5, and 10 seconds of the vehicle starting process than comparably rated conventional lead acid batteries.

I've read the threads on here about the issue[s] with the Voyager in the UK and / or / lifestyle.

So here's the question :

Why won't a TAXI battery at half the price of the SPIRAL do the job assuming you can find one to fit the space ? Accepting the blurb that the SPIRAL is the dogs~round~rolling~things and better, is it really that much better than the one a commercial TAXI driver would choose, and so - is it necessary ?
 
  #2  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:05 PM
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I replaced the original AGM spiral battery in my voyager last year. It had lasted 7 years so I'd say their claims on longevity are sound. It would have lasted another year or so if that winter had been a normal UK winter and not -10 celcius all the time!

I replaced mine with a standard battery, but when I measured the size of the battery compartment I found that although I could fit in a standard battery with a higher Amp hour rating than the OEM spiral battery, it did not produce the same CCA (cold cranking amps) as the spiral battery. Any standard battery that did produce the same CCA as the spiral (850 amps I think) was much too big to fit in the battery compartment.

So I ended up putting in a battery with a CCA of about 725 amps, which has been working fine, but the engine definately turns over a bit more slowly, especially in cold conditions.

So a standard battery works fine, but given the reduced CCA and standard ageing of lead acid batteries, I'd be surprised if it lasts more than 3 years or so. But it was slightly less than half the price and I will very probably not own the car when it next needs changing. If you are planning on keeping the car for a long time, then a standard battery may well be false economy.
 
  #3  
Old 01-19-2012, 10:00 AM
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Thanks for that booke23. The one on mine starts eventually. There is however no ' welly ' at all, its very pedestrian and lazy - but gets there. That was'nt the case till just a couple of weeks ago, and its hardly what we would call cold in the UK. Its currently fitted with a 69/520 Banner Uni Bull it is the case if its struggling now its gonna give problems sooner rather than later so I'll need to shell out for a replacement.

I take on board what you said about [ welly ] cold cranking amps, part of my problem is of my own making [lifestyle] because its only fired up once every week and hardly ever does more than 2000 miles a year. Either way I'll go for the 50+/800+, and may yet chance the TAXI pro stuff over the twice the price SPIRAL.

If and when I do I'll let the group know how it behaves and maybe someone in the near future cold UK / or / elsewhere will benefit from our exchange of info.
 
  #4  
Old 01-19-2012, 10:57 AM
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Just out of interest I have an Exide Excel EB741 74AH/680a fitted to my 2007 Executive with no problems. The red top Optima may have high short term cranking, but the 45AH capacity is rubbish and take ages to re charge so no good for short trips and low usage.

Regards John.
 
  #5  
Old 01-19-2012, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by J K Portland View Post
Just out of interest I have an Exide Excel EB741 74AH/680a fitted to my 2007 Executive with no problems. The red top Optima may have high short term cranking, but the 45AH capacity is rubbish and take ages to re charge so no good for short trips and low usage.

Regards John.
Agreed my friend, that's why I identified my infrequent use [ lifestyle ] the Uni-bull Banner I have is probably still good enough for purpose in any one else's 2.8 .. .. but not in mine. I'd be happy to pay the 150+ for a SPIRAL but it might prove to be worse than the one I'm replacing because the car gets infrequent use in a short burst only.

The way to go as you correctly say is back to lead acid. There are some good batteries out there at sub 90 that give an excellent highest AH and highest CCA ratio. The problem is as always fit / and / or / extending cables. Grinding the front lip of the tray is a tempting work~around, this 70/800ish is only 65 delivered and will fit if the front lip is ground off the tray, and no need to extend the leads.

Everything is a compromise, I looked at anything and everything under 150 on the lead~acid but without major manipulations to leads / wrong sided terminals and weld-reinforced battery trays it looks like that sort of size range is the maximum, so basically if I wanted to spend 500 on one I couldn't find one to fit.

Thanks for your opinion J K Portland, and I'll look at the EB741.
 
  #6  
Old 01-19-2012, 05:02 PM
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Good luck with your search.

Unfortunately when my battery needed replaced, it let me down suddenly. (due to sudden artic temperatures) It would only just start on Jump leads from our other car (small petrol). So I had to replace it in a hurry. Given a bit of time to research and mail order a replacement then I'm sure I could have done better than the battery I did get from the local motor factors.

To help you out in the meantime you could pull out the I.O.D. fuse if you are only using the car once a week. Chrysler recomend this if you are leaving the car more than two weeks without use. With your lifestyle I'd say a higher Amp hour rating would help, but even with a new battery you may want to consider using a trickle charger from time to time, especially in the winter.
 

Last edited by booke23; 01-19-2012 at 05:06 PM.
  #7  
Old 01-20-2012, 12:30 PM
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Halfords | Bosch 12V Silver Car Battery HSB096

thats the battery i fitted,even when its freexing outside,aslong as i let the glowplugs heat till light goes out,first turn it fires into life.and i can leave all my internal lights so forth on without the battery going dead
 
  #8  
Old 01-28-2012, 04:16 PM
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Rang first to check stock, then went to Halfords, ordered their own recommended [put your registration in] 5 year warranted battery the HSB096 @ 129:99 while the nice clepto-cashier lady was emptying my plastic I flicked up the terminal covers to find the Terminals were the wrong way [o O - they should be - O o] round.



A 12 year old expert fully trained and certificated male assistant wiped the dribble from his nose and stormed out to my MOTA in the rain which was splattering against his thin bony shoulders making a mess of his over white freshly ironed by his Mother .. .. shirt, all the time asserting in a very authoritative way why I way wrong and why it could not possibly be their 'fittings dBase', his matchstick like thin arms finally managed to lift the bonnet without breaking any of his arms only to find the common standard terminals.

I did try to help his embarrassment, honest I did, I even offered him one of my Wurthers Originals and assured him we all make mistakes .. .. its all part of life's long learning .. .. but I still want my 230 snots back and I want them now. So now I'm back to where I started, I never in my life thought buying a correct 'soddin battery would be so much trouble.

So I start the search again - this companies dBase correctly identifies the MOTA even listing the correct colour of my car etc and suggests 2 - both in the S range both will do the job , the;

S4010 / 12V, capacity 80Ah, cold test current 740A / 72:95 - 5 year warranty - free delivery
S5010 / 12V, capacity 85Ah, cold test current 800A / 87:50 - 5 year warranty - free delivery

My one remaining indecision is that though they list 315mm long, 175mm wide, 175mm high, the 315mm is about 27mm / 1.06 inches more than my current battery which will make the 175mm installed height of the battery a full inch closer to the sound deadening material on the underside of the bonnet [radiator side].

Two Three Four Points

.1. - unless someone wants to convince me before Monday that it wont fit, or the terminals are arras first I'll buy the bigger one

.2. - why waste all these letters of the alphabet ?, because there is an issue getting an 85/800 in the UK to fit a Voyager, and others following me might benefit from a thread that proves you don't have to go for a lesser capacity paying a lot - when you can have the full 85/800 for relatively little compared to the 175/175/278 size[s].

.3. - if I'm wrong tell me quick !!!! because although this Forum's users will benefit from my mistake, I'll be 88 Quid down the chute !

.4. - don't believe what these 'enter your registration' dataBASE's tell you .. .. they are as good as the wo/man entering the DATA and I've found three tonight alone that were wrong, and one [in hope more that expectation] that's correct.
 

Last edited by QinteQ; 01-28-2012 at 04:38 PM. Reason: insert URL'S
  #9  
Old 01-29-2012, 04:21 AM
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thats the battery i put in mines,u just put battery in other way,and terminals will reach.
 
  #10  
Old 01-29-2012, 05:19 AM
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I too got fed up wandering round Halfords with a tape measure.

Mines 2005 CRD 2.8

I went for an Exide EB741 74 AH 680 CCA.
I cut off the rear (as it fits in the car) lower lip of the battery off with a junior hacksaw and you can then just get it into the battery tray, clamp and terminals fit fine. No real stretch on the terminals.

I can now vacuum my Voyager out with the doors open, interior lights on and it will still start.

Would have liked more CCA but it works fine even when its below freezing

Hope this helps
 

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