Hi All

The transmissionon my 98 3.3 GV has started slipping slightly so I'm about to do a transmission flush/filter change.

All points re ATF+3 and +4 posted on this forum noted.

My question is : I can get a comma oil substitute which claims to replicate the properties of ATF+4, and its easier to obtain for me because I'm a bit aways from Chrysler main dealers.
the oil's spec can be checked out at www.commaoil.com

Any suggestions, anyone?

Oh and btw the van is UK Spec!

 

THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 21-010-06, DATED
APRIL 14, 2006, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL
REVISIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDES THE
ADDITION OF THE ASIAN WARNER (AW4) TRANSMISSION AND ADDITIONAL
MODELS AND YEARS.
SUBJECT:
Automatic Transmission Fluid Usage ATF+4 (Type MS9602)
MODELS:
1989 - 1995 (AA) Spirit/Acclaim/Lebaron Sedan
1989 - 2003 (AB) Ram Van/Wagon
1989 - 1993 (AC) Dynasty/New Yorker/New Yorker Salon
1989 - 1993 (AD) Ram Truck
1989 - 1994 (AG) Daytona
1989 (AH) Lancer/Lebaron GTS
1989 - 1995 (AJ) Lebaron Coupe/Lebaron Convertible
1989 - 1990 (AK) Aries/Reliant
1989 - 1990 (AL) Horizon/Omni
1989 (AM) Diplomat/Gran Fury/New Yorker fifth Avenue
1989 - 2004 (AN) Dakota
1989 - 1994 (AP) Shadow/Sundance
1990 - 1991 (AQ) Maserati
1990 - 1993 (AY) Imperial/New Yorker Fifth Avenue
1994 - 2003 (BR/BE) Ram Truck
2004 - **2008** (CS) Pacifica
1998 - 2003 (DN) Durango
2002 - **2008** (DR/DH/D1) Ram Truck
2007 - **2008** (DC) Ram 3500 Cab Chassis
1995 - 2000 (FJ) Sebring/Avenger/Talon
1996 - 2000 (GS) Chrysler Voyager (International Market)
NUMBER: 21-014-07
GROUP: Transmission
DATE: October 16, 2007
2004 - **2008** (HB) Durango
**2008 (HG) Aspen**
1995 - 2000 (JA) Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze
2007 - **2008** (JK) Wrangler
2001- 2006 (JR) Sebring Sedan & Convertible/Stratus Sedan
2007 - **2008** (JS) Avenger/Sebring/Serbring Convertible
1996 - 2000 (JX) Sebring Convertible
**2007 - 2008 (KA) Nitro**
2002 - 2007 (KJ) Liberty
**2008 (KK) Liberty**
**2008 (L2) 300C (China)**
1993 - 2004 (LH) Concorde/Intrepid/Vision/LHS/New Yorker
/300M
2005 - **2008** (LX/LE) 300/Magnum/Charger
2005 - **2008** (ND) Dakota
1996 - 2000 (NS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
1995 - 2005 (PL) Neon
2002 - 2003 (PG) PT Cruiser (International Markets)
2001 - **2008** (PT) PT Cruiser
1997 - 2002 (PR) Prowler
2001 - 2007 (RG) Chrysler Voyager (International Markets)
2001 - 2007 (RS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
**2008 (RT) Town & Country/Grand Caravan/Grand Voyager
(U.S. & International Markets)**
1997 - 2006 (TJ) Wrangler
2001 - 2004 (WG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
Vehicles equipped with Gas engines
1999 - 2004 (WJ) Grand Cherokee
2005 - **2008** (WK/WH) Grand Cherokee
2006 - **2008** (XK/XH) Commander
1989 - 1995 (YJ) Wrangler
**1989 - 2001 (XJ) Cherokee**
**1989 - 1993 (MJ) Comanche**
1996 - 1998 (ZG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
1994 - 1998 (ZJ) Grand Cherokee/Grand Wagoneer
NOTE: **AW-4 (Asian Warner) transmissions are now included in this Service
Bulletin. ATF+4® is recommended for AW-4 (Asian Warner) transmissions**
21-014-07 -2-
NOTE: This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to the following transmissions:
• Sprinter transmissions
• Crossfire transmissions
• MK/PM vehicles equipped with Continuously Variable Transmission
(CVT)
• WG vehicles equipped with a diesel engine (sales code ENF) and a
W5J400 or NAG1 transmission (sales code DGJ)
• **ALL vehicles equipped with a AS68RC Transmission (sales code
DG3)**
• **ALL vehicles equipped with a GENTRAG MPS6 Transmission (sales
code DG5)**
DISCUSSION:
ATF+4® - (Type 9602) is being used as factory fill for Chrysler Group automatic
transmissions. ATF+4® is recommended for all vehicles equipped with Chrysler
Group automatic transmissions EXCEPT FOR THOSE LISTED IN THE NOTE ABOVE.
NOTE: ATF+4® must always be used in vehicles that were originally filled with
ATF+4®. DO NOT USE ANY OTHER FLUID.
NOTE: ATF+4® is backward compatible with ATF+3 , ATF+2, and ATF+. Additionally,
ATF+4® can be used to top off vehicles that used ATF+3, ATF+2, or ATF+.
NOTE: If ATF+4® is used to service models originally filled with ATF+3 , ATF+2, and
ATF+ the fluid maintenance schedules listed for that model does not change.
The service interval currently in effect for a given model should continue to
be followed. Refer to the Service or Owners manual for maintenance
schedule directions.
In general terms, If ATF+, ATF+2 or ATF+3 was the recommended fluid, it is now
recommended to use ATF+4®
BENEFITS
•Better anti-wear properties
•Improved rust/corrosion prevention
•Controls oxidation
•Eliminates deposits
•Controls friction
•Retains anti-foaming properties
•Superior properties for low temperature operation
FLUID COLOR
Mopar ATF+4® has exceptional durability. However, the red dye used in ATF+4® is not
permanent; as the fluid ages it may become darker or appear brown in color. ATF+4® also
has a unique odor that may change with age. With ATF+4® fluid, color and odor are no
longer indicators of fluid condition and do not necessarily support a fluid change

 

The spec for ATF+4 is so tight that any manufacture labeled ATF+4 is all the same (Valvoline ATF+4, as an example). DO NOT USE ANYTHING BUT ATF+4 IN YOUR TRANS-AXEL. I think you can get factory ATF+4 at some Wall Marts. If you are in the UK, I can't help you as to where to get it, other than the dealer. I would not try the Comma brand because Mercon and ATF+4 are mentioned in the same sentence. It may be ok to use, but are you prepared to purchase a new/rebuilt tranny if it doesn't, because that is the reality. Mercon plus the additive that is supposed to make it conform to the ATF+4 spec is known to dissolve the clutch packs.
Don't take a chance is my advise.

 

Thanks people for the quick response. I'm taking your advice n will get ATF+4 from dealer in a couple of days. Will let you know how I get on..

 

Well I got the ATF+4 and I’ve done the change, along with the filter, but I didn’t flush the rest of the oil out via the oilcooler, as has been mentioned in posts elsewhere in the forum. (due time constraints, really). So I only put 4.2 litres back in. I got about 5 out. Things I noticed :
- The old oil was reddish brown. I had no idea when the last change was done, cos the van came to me with no service history.
- The old rtv was stuck solid – took me all of 45mins + rubber mallet + thin end of a scraper to get it off. Would this give some indication of how long ago the oil was changed?
- Sadly, one of the screws stripped its threads when I was putting the oil pan back on, its in there but its not tight. There is no sign of any leakage from that point yet. Should I be worried?
- The magnet in the pan looked like a fur toy with metallic dust.Is this normal?
- The performance improved a lot, but I can’t say that there is no slippage at all any more…say an 80% improvement. If I did a complete oil change, would that clear the slippage totally? (before oil change, from a standing start I’d have to rev up to 2500rpm up an incline before hitting 30mph. Now I’m hitting 30 mph at 1500rpm up the same hill)

Tks for any advice people, & thanks for the ATF tip!

 

A furry magnet isn't a good sign, as those are metal shavings that are attached to the magnet.

ATF+3 isn't synthetic while ATF+4 is. Since ATF+3 isn't as heat tolerant or nearly as good a lubricant, you don't want it in your trans-axle any longer than 15K miles under severe duty conditions. What normal city driving is rated in the drivers manual. You are already experiencing the fruits of changing your fluid/filter as you've already described.

It could be that it was ATF+3 that was in there, and you want to get rid of that as quickly as possible. Since you just did a pan drop and filter change, you changed about 1/2 of the total oil. After running for a few hundred miles, to mix it all up pretty well, you can do another fluid only change. At this point you will have changed about 3/4 of the old fluid. Since there isn't anyway to say how long the old fluid was in there, I would make that change.
At that point you will have mostly ATF+4 which should be good enough. If your really concerned you could drop the pan again and change the fluid after again driving for a bit.
I would change oil/filter again after 20K miles or after 1 year, which ever method you choose. If you do nothing, I would change it again after 10K miles or 1 year.

You might add a stacked plate tranny oil cooler in front of the radiator to help keep your fluid cool. That was one of the factory changes made to the 4th gen vans. If you look at the frequency of repair records for the various years, you see that the transmissions got better service after 2001. I believe this to be the addition of the extra oil cooler and ATF+4, which doesn't break down under heat as fast.
A good in-line filter would be another item I would recommend to you. Put it before the coolers so that if your tranny grenades it will catch the metal shavings before they get into the coolers. They also filter better than the factory filter.

A factory rebuilt tranny is about 3K installed in the USA. I can't imagine what that would cost in the UK. You probably should think about putting money away for a factory rebuilt unit if you plan on keeping the van for any length of time.
People on the various forums report there are 3ed gen vans which have had 2 rebuilds in them before 100K miles and vans which have gone 200K+ miles on the factory original tranny. Fluid/filter changing doesn't seem to be a major factor because failure occurs throughout all the maintenance (or lack there of) habits. It turns out to be pretty much a crap shoot whether your van will have tranny problems.

 

I just got a 1999 Plymouth Grand Voyager 3.0L Base.
I am a little confused here, should I buy ATF+3 or ATF+4 for my van?

I am new to this van, Pls help me out on this.

Many thanks.

 

ATF+3 has been discontinued, so you now use ATF+4. Check the TSB which CHRYSLER TECH posted above an you will see 1996 - 2000 (NS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager is listed as now using ATF+4.

 

yea I hear you webbee, going to do a complete oil change at the wkend and keep my fingers crossed. I'll also get the extra oil cooler and filter at some point over the next couple months. I'll let you guys know how I get on.

Tks for the all the info!

 

Glad your choosing to do a complete fluid change. It costs, but then so does a rebuild.
Here are some URL's to help you on your way with the cooler and filter:

Magnefine Filters

B&M Super Coolers

I think I got a B&M 70268 which does the job. It did require some clearance trimming of the plastic radiator cover trim. I also used a spin-on filter and an adapter block, which if I had it to do over, I would use the in-line Magnefine style. The spin-on is like the one at the following link:

Spin-on Remote Filter Kit

All of these parts are available locally here in the US, but I think you will have to find something similar there, that will work the same.

My pleasure on any info I provided. I think it's a hoot that we can discuss all this stuff over the Internet given the distances between us. Isn't technology wondrous!