Battery Drainage
 

I have posted before but as I still haven't rectified my problems I'm back again,
I have a Left hand drive 2001 3.3L automatic Petrol/gas Chrysler Voyager.

The battery keeps going flat on me overnight randomly sometimes it may be a week or more others its flat every morning.
when I use it,(I another vehicle which is more economical) I do 2x40mins runs a day in it about 12miles each way, I've made sure the radio is switched off before leaving the vehicle.
The last couple of times the battery has been flat I've noticed on approaching the vehicle that the wipers are in 'mid swipe' as if the ignition has been switched off with the wipers in the on position, I made sure they were switched off prior to leaving the vehicle.
I have previously left one of the wiper relay's out overnight and the battery has remained charged but can't gaurantee that this is the cause or know how to rectify it.
Today I have recharged the battery and switched over the two wiper relays which are identical I don't know if this will work but am at a loss as what to do to fix my problem.
As a short term fix I carry a spare battery and jump leads in case it lets me down through the day.
Can anyone help me PLEASE ?
Steve

Get a digital volt/ohm meter that has the capability of reading current. Attach it in series between the positive post and the pos cable of the battery. There is always a surge when you make the connection so you need to do this in such a way as to protect the meter from the surge. Try disconnecting the battery. and make a jumper between the cable and post then connect the meter parallel to the jumper. Wait several minutes for the thing to settle down, then remove the jumper leaving the meter in place.
With everything settled down, the current should read about 50 milliamps or less. This represents the current drawn by the clock and the receiver for the keyless entry, both of which are always on.
If it's significantly more that that, start pulling fuses one by one until you isolate the circuit with the short. Use the guide on the underside of the fusebox cover to identify the various circuits. Once identified you'll need to trace down whatit is in the circuit is causing the problem. Could be lots of things like a bad component in the circuit or a wire with it's insulation damaged or something similar. Could be a light left on somewhere (not an infrequent issue in minivans where kids leave lights on).
Even if you can succeed only in locating the circuit, you can leave the fuse out until you can hire somebody to take a closer look, and you'll save the labor of hunting down the circuit.

or buy a battry optimizer keeps mine sweet

Thanks very much Guys for your assistance, I hate electrics but will buy or borrow a voltmeter asap (payday!) went to it again this morning and the battery was flat and the wipers had moved, so at the moment the batttery's on charge and my next move is to remove the wiper relays whilst not using the vehicle and test the battery daily.
By the way my interior lights also stay on permanent so I removed the bulbs (one strange quirk is that the front curtousy lights works as normaL! it's the middle and rear that stay on !
Once again thanks for all the help and will keep you all posted.

With regard to the interior lights, have you checked the position of the dimmer switch? On mine if that's rotated fully one way to the click point then the rear/middle interior lights are on.

Did you try the trick with a camcorder to see if the wipers were coming on during the night?

Regards

Richard

i had the same problums had to bye a new battery and a battery conditioner because the fauilt couldent be found so noight times i put mine on a battery optimizer no probs now

TBF.
I haven't checked the dimmer switch but will do so this evening !
GLEN
It was a new battery before I bought the vehicle however I carry a larger size and more powerful battery in the boot to jump the car if needed !

Car has the recharged battery on at the moment with the wiper relays removed to see if the battery stays charged overnight, fingers crossed !

mine would just go flat with no warning you go to turn the key the wipers would move the speedo and rev counter would go to max then back to 0 but would not start even got a small soler panel fitted in the car just to keep triqualling up the batterywhen im out but even chrsler could even sort it and my local car elec shop could not sort it acording to a lot of poeple its a commen fauilt that cant be sorted so i just got a batgery optimizer for £39.99 at amazon good luk

sorry battery optimizer

Dimmer switch
 

With regards the dimmer switch it was indeed in the full on position !
Its fine in any other position except full on.
I think it's similar to the wiper switch, you have varying degrees of brightness for the interior light but the full on position leaves the lights on permanent, say for if your leaving someone in the car for a while on an evening who maybe wants to read ?

The battery is fine at the moment but I'm leaving the wiper replay switches out for as long as I can to see if the bsattery keeps its charge for a longer period !

Latest update: The battery's flat even with the wiper relays out!
The battery is only a 60AMP one it came with the car so have put it back on charge and put the brand new spare on which I think is either 70 or 80amp.

The old one which is apparently only about 12months old has sightly 'bowed' sides I don't know if this is normal or whether one of the cells is defective causing it not to keep its charge ?
Initially it was only going flat about once a month but now its only a matter of days.
So the newer more powerful one is on at the moment so not sure if something is draining the battery or it's just faulty, will have to wait and see !

If the battery sides look swollen then it's a fair bet that it's buggered.

Regards

Richard

Speedo needle sweeps left to right - do short journeys in it and you are doomed - I assume you meant 60/70ah not 60/70AMP

CCA counts, the 60/70ah is irrelevant to the problem. On your batteries will be a (1) date (2) CCA and (3) ah rating, what are they on the newer one, in particular what is the CCA of the newer one ?. Without being techie the cold cranking amps [CCA] is what's needed for these cold starting days. The ah is irrelevant to your problem.

As tfb says if you have a bowed battery its goosed, sling it, its goosed and dangerous.

Simplistic and non techie answer - CCA is how much it your battery can supply in a short burst to start your car - ah is the total time it can supply it for until its dead.

Cheers, Just gone through all the comprehensive paper work and reciepts that came with the car and have found the purchase reciept for the 60AH battery along with a 3yr warranty so am going to try taking it back ! Nothing to lose the whole car only cost 500€ so 96€ back for the battery makes the car cheaper !

Checked the new battery, (bought in Dunkirk France) all it has on it is 12V 70AH 640A
As above I'm taking the old battery back as it's still under gaurantee but as I'm not the purchaser of the battery I may not have grounds for a refund here's hoping I do !

- everyone has a view, mine is that America [Fiat] sold a perfectly good petrol car with a diesel engine all over Europe
- the battery spec, charging rate and even its tray is inadequately sized for a bigger more capable battery for the UK and other similar 0°C countries
- 99% of the problems are, it, the battery is on its limits at 0°C, add lifestyle infrequent use, and your problems start
- add to that mix the very specific to the Voyager parasitic drain and you begin to see the combination of events coming together
- a 640CCA battery is absolutely useless in a 2.8 lump in these vans as soon as the weather cools or gets 0°C cold
- being forced to buy a new battery means anything less than a 800CCA is madness - but an 800CCA [ish] won't fit the battery tray

There are plenty of UK threads on the subject in this forum, different people have different outcomes, opinions and lifestyles but all agree that a good battery in good nick is an absolute in the UK. Batteries have an amazingly short lifespan, stick an undersized battery on an oversized job and it will shorten its lifespan correspondingly.

agreed

Richard

I fitted the higher rated battery on Friday as previously posted and refitted the relays, checked the position of the wipers from my balcony window every morning since and they've not moved.
Used the car for the first time today it took 3 attempts to start (minus temperatures here !) but fired up, did a very short trip 2km! then did 2 further trips of 22km each each time the car started first time.
Fingers crossed !

frizzby5, pleased its working for you.

Lifestyles as I said in #4 are critical to this car, anyone regardless of brand new megga battery with a lifestyle that does not use the car for enough hours to charge a battery will never win. It takes a lot longer than people realise to charge a battery and a start stop start again journey won't charge it either. I decided that the least I could do was stop the drain, parasitic or otherwise, I wasted a whole £11 quid delivered on precisely this N05HN from everyone's favourite high street robber and thus far its delivered to me what I expected.

NOTE : I'm guilty of that lifestyle problem apart from 5 minutes here and there is goes 15 minutes each way once a week, with radio, heater, lights etc on the return journey.

Well I'm back again, mixed news this time I took the battery back and they replaced it without question but it's still not pwerful enough for the chrysler so will probably use it on my VW polo.
So I now have the more powerful 70ah battery on the vehicle, it's been on the car since 22nd Feb all was fine until I WOKE UP yesterday saturday 2nd looked out the window and the wipers were at 45 degrees, flat battery again !
I went down to the car and heard a loud clicking noise from under the bonnet (is that something to do with a solenoid or relays ?)
I've not heard it before so it could be a new developement. any further ideas guys ?

Here amongst others is / was my recent experience and musings on battery's.

frizzby5, 70ah means absolutely zero in terms of your problem and possible solution, how many [CCA] Cold Cranking Amps is your new battery ?

I don't get the window wiper bit but there is a post here about wipers coming on themselves. Just pull the wiper fuse, that'll isolate it completely even if there are 'grounding' issues on the Solenoid.

You can get a crude CCA reading from a bog standard multi-meter, when cold and after an overnight stand with a fully charged battery


- black to black red to red should give about 12.5v for a half charged battery
- if you then try to start the car and the meter reads less than 10v that's the CCA buggered
- if it reads less than 5v its probably a cell down and the whole battery buggered

My point is you can have a battery that looks good, appearers to charge ok, gives a good reading on a multimeter but is useless at CCA. These Voyager battery trays won't take a decent size CCA battery, the sellers will sell you anything, most of which have a lousy CCA. I've just put my VIN number into 5 different e-sites and they all offered me what I know will fit the battery tray, but at £160 to £200+ I know none of them will start my car in the bad weather, so don't trust the internet and don't trust sellers.

What's the CCA on your new battery frizzby5 ?

The oinly info on my Battery is;
12V 70AH 640A I'm assuming the 640a bit is the CCA is that correct ?

I too would assume its 640CCA. These motors in the UK winter months usually run best on a 019 type Battery, but as mentioned earlier you or garage have to make them fit - there's just not size-wise the room for it. That's why garages and sales sites fob you off with 600 instead of 800CCA, or try to sell you an expensive red/yellow [4's] top 'spiral' batteries at £250+. Here's what I describe as a taxi battery its a bog standard 019 which is 100ah and 800CCA that will take any amount of hammer from a big diesel or even a mini-bus. Here is another better brand 019 which is 95ah and 850CCA.

On this same subject this will start a megga 3 litre Range Rover its 95AH and 800CCA cold cranking amps and its peanuts at £80.

But at 353mm Long 175mm Wide and 190mm Height it won't fit the sodding tray without 'chonking' great lumps out of the battery bay!

I'm Back again !!!! Car has been stood a full week and the wipers haven't moved, I've accessed the vehicle the the electronic fob a few times with no adverse effect to the battery.
Yesterday morning I used the car for a short trip of 2 km it started first time and no problems were encountered, on my return I parked it up and went inside.
I approached the vehicle this morning in order to use it for church, the wipers were operating on there own with no key in the ignition they were moving slowly as it was draining the power from the battery also there was a loud clicking noise from under the bonnet in the vicinity of the fuse box.
On my return from church (having used our other vehicle for the journey) I opened the bonnet (the clicking was still happening) removing the fuse box cover I removed all the black relays and the green ones one at a time all to no availl the clicking persisted !
I think the clicking occurs when the battery is flat and is not the cause of the flat battery ?
I replaced the battery with a fully charged (albeit underpowered) one, the clicking stopped.
I removed the wiper relays and placed the other battery on charge, I'm going to be using the car shortly as were due to go out somewhere, so will repoRt again later.
Assuming the wipers are still 'live' when the key is out of the ignition what the hell do/can I do about it ?

A guess / re-starting point.

All fused battery positive voltage is supplied to almost everything through the Inte-grated Power Module [IPM]. That fusebox is not what it appears to be but is several 'layered' PCB's with pins stcking up through one or more PCB's into what you call the fusebox.

That box top / lid comes off and as you know, and all the fuses are numbered in the lid, the bottom of the IPM fusebox is connected to the loom at the bottom, that too easily comes apart exposing the IPM / loom connects with a plastic clip on the side near the wing.

Mucho dirt, verdigris, gunge and bad to poor connections can be found and easily cleaned under there - have a look.

Thanks for the info regarding the fuse box, however it appears to be secured by 2 clips between the battery and fusebox and 1 between the fusebox and wing But I can't work out how to unclip them ?

See here:-

"""If you turn the key on your Caravan and get crazy unexplainable electrical problems, or multiple electrical problems, head right for the Intelligent Power Module (IPM) located next to the battery. Water intrusion and corrosion in the bottom of this unit is a MAJOR problem with these vehicles.

Disconnect the battery terminals and let the system power down for at least five minutes before removing the IPM. Then remove the IPM and check the wiring harness and internal connections for corrosion. If you find any, REPLACE the entire unit. That’s right, you’re wasting your time trying to clean the corrosion - it’s THAT big of a problem. Otherwise you'll be chasing electrical gremlins for the life of the vehicle."""

- I don't agree with all of the above, but it is one experts opinion and worth a read, all his Cyrysler [by model] articles are here
- work out how to unclip them ?, I can't exactly REM but I had no bother, so just carefully persevere
- for myself I'd leave 15 minutes +, I've noticed on the EURO spec vans, have capacitance power long after the (-) cable comes off

I'm not suggesting you do this, but this is what the IPM looks like in bits and explains my earlier comment on "several 'layered' PCB's with pins sticking up through one or more PCB's into what you call the fusebox." :

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/att...5&d=1361738767
http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/att...1&d=1361738767
http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/att...3&d=1361738767

Thanks for the Info Mate, Going back the the UK for 1o days tomorrow so will search out an IPM there, seen one on E-BAY for £48 BUT it still my not fix the problem !
By the way I used the vehicle this morning having removed the Wiper relays a few days ago, the battery was stil flat so the wipers may not be the cause but a symptom of failure !

I never thought the wipers was the wipers, but the wipers was an IPM / BUS issue, its only once you pull off the connectors from the bottom of the IPM and undo the 4 clips that separate the layers of the IPM you begin to see the corrosion. The IPM at first sight can look bright & beautiful, inside can lurk a very rusted ugly duckling. Try the following before you buy a SH replacement IPM.

You will have a fully charged battery when you arrive here in the UK, try pulling only the IOD fuse which controls both remote key fobs / radio / heater blower / flick back mirrors / sliding doors / interior lights and central locking system etc. What happens when only the IOD fuse is pulled ?

Ok will do, the car was fine this morning as I loaded a few things into it before work, It opened and closed with the remote fob.
On my return from work an hour ago the wipers have moved indicating a flat battery, I haven't checked it, I'm waiting till its time to set off tonight and will jump start it from the other vehicle if necessary.
Its a 400km journey to the ferry port, we park up for the night (another opportunity for it to go flat!) and catch the 10am ferry to the UK and then another 450Km journey to my destination, So yes it will be fully charged by then so will try your suggestion tomorrow night at my mothers.

i kept on draining my battery when i first got my grand voyager. i didnt realise i had been leaving my ignition in the accessory position and thus leaving all the electrics on all night. now i remove my key at the notched position and no longer hear the bleep when i open the door( which id ignord before) and the battery is always fine.

- pulling the IOD when on the ferry should reduce parasitic draw and the potential for 'ghost' switching
- everything to gain and nothing to loose, its designed to - pull up to break the circuit - but leave it in place so it never gets lost
- best of luck !

The battery died on our 2.5 last week. It still had it's original chrysler/daimler battery in it from new and the car is now 12 years old with 137k miles!! I know this as it was my in laws car from new although they rarely ever used the electric doors and the car was doing regular journeys of 200+ motorway miles every week.

The battery i replaced it with was too long for the tray so i just did a bit of 'adjustment' on the tray. With 1000cca i've not had any problems since but the rear wiper no longer works.

- agreed, I always suggest a minimum 800CCA in the UK for a CRD, the 2.8 is a 'big lump' when its cold, its an even bigger lump over 5 years old
- but you have to 'make~it~fit', see here
- the minimum starting point should be an 019, different people have chosen different 019 solutions with good results

I can't see a single IOD fuse that controls the things you mention, they all seem to have individual fuses/relays !

Cheers RAW700, I never gave that option a second thought I now conciously make sure the key is in that position and so far no flat battery but then again it's gone over a week sometimes before it's gone down on me.

- Fuse F14 - 20 Amp Yellow
- #23 will give you the 'key dance' and the 'acrimonious divorce'
- all the fuses are listed inside the lid, the IOD is bottom left hand side as you read the lid ! see # 5 here

Battery is fine so far as long as I remove the key at the 'notched' position as Raw700 says so fingers crossed I've not got anything more serious to resolve (at the moment!)
Minor problems are that I've lost my dash lights when I last jump started the car, I keep forgetting to check the fuse box !
and I've broke my interior bonnet/hood catch and need to find a replacement !

fab news! see us women are not just good for washing up!! lol

Females
 

Never had a problem with female drivers who know what to do under the bonnet.
my problem now is since it let me down last time my dash lights are out, the fuses are ok but not sure how to check the green square ones or relays ?