Battery light
#1
04-11-2018, 08:49 AM
Battery light
'99 T&C 3.3L... the battery light comes on sporadically, never on consecutive trips. The alternator was replaced about 2 months ago but the light hadn't come on since then until about 2 weeks ago. I voltage-tested the battery and new alternator and both seem to check out fine. What else should I look for?
#2
04-11-2018, 09:05 AM
Have a load test done of the battery for Crank amps, if that test shows less than 70% of the battery's rating you are looking at replacing the battery. Also clean and tighten the battery terminals and connectors. IF your battery is known to be over 4 years old, plan on replacing it anyway.
#5
04-11-2018, 02:25 PM
Original post :Posted 25 May 2017 - 09:26 PM
Battery
Battery choice, like choosing a wife, provokes different opinions on what is beautiful. The issue[s] however are simple. You should be looking for about 800CCA over 80aH, this is a physical size that will not fit the CRD battery tray, so get a big one and modify the tray, or get a smaller one and take your UK winter chances. There is a~n~other UK issue of lifestyle, its a use it or lose it condition. If like me you do a miserable low 2000 miles per annum with two 15 minutes trips once a week you will regardless of battery size / cost never keep that battery charged, the BUS [over 7 or so days] at resting will use more than the 30 minutes the alternator was able to replace.
Different people have success with different batteries, I'm sure the UK users will come to your aid with their suggestions, particularly the Scottish contingent who have an even colder climate than I. For myself I originally had a Banner Uni Bull 690 over 70 and my replacement was a Bosch S5 Type 96 at 800 over 80.
Power seat fuse[s] : are as stated droppers, as you have had your battery removed for 4 days the 'droppers' should re-set themselves via the BCM/IPM
Update : Comment on Lifestyle ; Two 15 minutes trips once a week. Here is my personal issue regardless of battery condition at the start of winter I'm always going to run out of battery before the warm weather comes. The average off-draw [see below] of 0.025 amperes always means my personal CCA bank will be empty within six months. I've tried cheap and very expensive German solar and it does not work. I have a brand new spare C6 800/80 fully charged sitting underneath this [best money you will ever spend/waste] this 9 stage charger. I'm lucky enough to have a BA9 to test batteries and can tell you for a fact that no new battery is anywhere 1/2 full when you buy it, is often already approaching its pension and at its half life age when you buy it that's why the stopped putting the DOM date on them, add to our woes EURO legislation stuffing % recycled under-par non-virgin lead into the plates and little surprise then they appear to be less good now than they once were, so best you can do is (1) charge properly (2) test the actual CCA properly and (3) be prepared to bite the bullet and change every Sept to a fully winter ready 80/800. Desperate for a @get out of jail NOW card,, this will go straight in with no moddin. Cant afford the red-top get a cheepo Lion. Best of luck.
The higher the voltage applied, the faster the battery will charge, charging at too high a voltage WILL damage your battery. A simple 100Ah open lead acid battery and a 180A charger connected to the battery discharged to 50% :
- @ 50% full @ 13.2V current was 35A
- @ 50% full @ 14,8V current was 160A [improvement of 457%]
- @ 75% full @ 13.2V current was 1A
- @ 75% full @ 14.8V current was 60A [improvement of 6000%]
Its not linear so :
- two 15 minute periods @ 13.2V is 2 x 15 minute @ 21Ah, compared to ;
- two 15 minute periods @ 14.4V is 2 x 15 minute @ 60Ah, is an improvement of about 300%
The temperature sensor under the battery will drop [ temperature compensator's on modern alternators will compensate] the voltage output from about 14.0V to about 13.2V. The problem I have with this is the engine compartment soon reaches temp and the battery assumes its fully charged.
- 13.20 volts is about what you would expect from [split diode - does not apply to Voyagers, and] this vehicle with a temp sensor & alternator compensator
- 14.00 volts is about what you would expect from any typical alternator without a vehicle temp sensor & alternator compensator
- 14.40 volts is what you would expect from a sealed lead acid to prevent [they tend to gas @ 50ºC] excessive gassing
- 14.80 volts is what you can risk pushing it to with an open lead acid to prevent damage to other equipment connected to the battery at the same time
NOTE01 : There are IOD 7 functions that are 'live' when you think your car and battery are asleep, they pull a combined 0.025 ampere draw. I used a Maplins cheepo solar panel which cost me £15 at the time, and I have never been unable to start the car since. They are :
• Electrical items left on.
• Faulty or improperly adjusted switches.
• Faulty or shorted electronic modules and components.
• An internally shorted generator.
• Intermittent shorts in the wiring
Remote key fob
Radio
Heater blower
Folding mirrors
Central locks
Interior lights when the key is in the ignition
IGNITION-OFF DRAW TEST - reproduced from the workshop manual - According to Chrysler's own workshop manual :
Allow twenty minutes for the IOD to stabilize and observe the multi-meter reading. The low-amper- age IOD should not exceed twenty-five milliamperes (0.025 ampere). If the current draw exceeds twenty-five milliamperes, isolate each circuit using the fuse and circuit breaker remove-and-replace process in Step 4. The multi-meter reading will drop to within the acceptable limit when the source of the excessive current draw is disconnected. Repair this circuit as required; whether a wiring short, incorrect switch adjustment, or a component failure is at fault
The term Ignition-Off Draw (IOD) identifies a normal condition where power is being drained from the battery with the ignition switch in the Off position. A normal vehicle electrical system will draw from fifteen to twenty five milliamperes (0.015 to 0.025 ampere) with the ignition switch in the Off position, and all non-ignition controlled circuits in proper working order. Up to twenty-five milliamperes are needed to enable the memory functions for the Powertrain Control Module (PCM), digital clock, electronically tuned radio, and other modules which may vary with the vehicle equipment. A vehicle that has not been operated for approximately twenty one days, may discharge the battery to an inadequate level. When a vehicle will not be used for twenty one days or more (stored), remove the IOD fuse from the Integrated Power Module (IPM). This will reduce battery discharging.
BatteryMOD
I like many of us was an early adopter of AGM, most of us by now will be AGM. It occurs to me that the safe μF we chose for the buttonMOD could be changed to give closer to 14.4V than the 14.1 I was getting. I went 13.9 to 14.1 it would be nice to have that extra .3V, it would make a hell of a difference on a big 80aH even over such a short charging time frame as 15 minutes.
I was thinking 22K Ω @ 1/2 watt would be a goodish guesstimate for keeping it under the 14.6[ish] although I'm sure it would be safe a little higher. I'll be happy if I can get to the extra .3's @ 14.4 * Tested .... smack on 14.4-6 winter and 14+ summer over a 6 month period steady across the REV range. This will better recover the winter loss more quickly. Of course in the summer the ALT output will be limited by the lower battery replenishment needs Well pleased !
Update : Changed the 22K Ω @ 1/2 watt for 33K Ω @ 1/2 watt and get a consistent 15+ summer and 14+ winter.
Battery
Battery choice, like choosing a wife, provokes different opinions on what is beautiful. The issue[s] however are simple. You should be looking for about 800CCA over 80aH, this is a physical size that will not fit the CRD battery tray, so get a big one and modify the tray, or get a smaller one and take your UK winter chances. There is a~n~other UK issue of lifestyle, its a use it or lose it condition. If like me you do a miserable low 2000 miles per annum with two 15 minutes trips once a week you will regardless of battery size / cost never keep that battery charged, the BUS [over 7 or so days] at resting will use more than the 30 minutes the alternator was able to replace.
Different people have success with different batteries, I'm sure the UK users will come to your aid with their suggestions, particularly the Scottish contingent who have an even colder climate than I. For myself I originally had a Banner Uni Bull 690 over 70 and my replacement was a Bosch S5 Type 96 at 800 over 80.
Power seat fuse[s] : are as stated droppers, as you have had your battery removed for 4 days the 'droppers' should re-set themselves via the BCM/IPM
Update : Comment on Lifestyle ; Two 15 minutes trips once a week. Here is my personal issue regardless of battery condition at the start of winter I'm always going to run out of battery before the warm weather comes. The average off-draw [see below] of 0.025 amperes always means my personal CCA bank will be empty within six months. I've tried cheap and very expensive German solar and it does not work. I have a brand new spare C6 800/80 fully charged sitting underneath this [best money you will ever spend/waste] this 9 stage charger. I'm lucky enough to have a BA9 to test batteries and can tell you for a fact that no new battery is anywhere 1/2 full when you buy it, is often already approaching its pension and at its half life age when you buy it that's why the stopped putting the DOM date on them, add to our woes EURO legislation stuffing % recycled under-par non-virgin lead into the plates and little surprise then they appear to be less good now than they once were, so best you can do is (1) charge properly (2) test the actual CCA properly and (3) be prepared to bite the bullet and change every Sept to a fully winter ready 80/800. Desperate for a @get out of jail NOW card,, this will go straight in with no moddin. Cant afford the red-top get a cheepo Lion. Best of luck.
The higher the voltage applied, the faster the battery will charge, charging at too high a voltage WILL damage your battery. A simple 100Ah open lead acid battery and a 180A charger connected to the battery discharged to 50% :
- @ 50% full @ 13.2V current was 35A
- @ 50% full @ 14,8V current was 160A [improvement of 457%]
- @ 75% full @ 13.2V current was 1A
- @ 75% full @ 14.8V current was 60A [improvement of 6000%]
Its not linear so :
- two 15 minute periods @ 13.2V is 2 x 15 minute @ 21Ah, compared to ;
- two 15 minute periods @ 14.4V is 2 x 15 minute @ 60Ah, is an improvement of about 300%
The temperature sensor under the battery will drop [ temperature compensator's on modern alternators will compensate] the voltage output from about 14.0V to about 13.2V. The problem I have with this is the engine compartment soon reaches temp and the battery assumes its fully charged.
- 13.20 volts is about what you would expect from [split diode - does not apply to Voyagers, and] this vehicle with a temp sensor & alternator compensator
- 14.00 volts is about what you would expect from any typical alternator without a vehicle temp sensor & alternator compensator
- 14.40 volts is what you would expect from a sealed lead acid to prevent [they tend to gas @ 50ºC] excessive gassing
- 14.80 volts is what you can risk pushing it to with an open lead acid to prevent damage to other equipment connected to the battery at the same time
NOTE01 : There are IOD 7 functions that are 'live' when you think your car and battery are asleep, they pull a combined 0.025 ampere draw. I used a Maplins cheepo solar panel which cost me £15 at the time, and I have never been unable to start the car since. They are :
• Electrical items left on.
• Faulty or improperly adjusted switches.
• Faulty or shorted electronic modules and components.
• An internally shorted generator.
• Intermittent shorts in the wiring
Remote key fob
Radio
Heater blower
Folding mirrors
Central locks
Interior lights when the key is in the ignition
IGNITION-OFF DRAW TEST - reproduced from the workshop manual - According to Chrysler's own workshop manual :
Allow twenty minutes for the IOD to stabilize and observe the multi-meter reading. The low-amper- age IOD should not exceed twenty-five milliamperes (0.025 ampere). If the current draw exceeds twenty-five milliamperes, isolate each circuit using the fuse and circuit breaker remove-and-replace process in Step 4. The multi-meter reading will drop to within the acceptable limit when the source of the excessive current draw is disconnected. Repair this circuit as required; whether a wiring short, incorrect switch adjustment, or a component failure is at fault
The term Ignition-Off Draw (IOD) identifies a normal condition where power is being drained from the battery with the ignition switch in the Off position. A normal vehicle electrical system will draw from fifteen to twenty five milliamperes (0.015 to 0.025 ampere) with the ignition switch in the Off position, and all non-ignition controlled circuits in proper working order. Up to twenty-five milliamperes are needed to enable the memory functions for the Powertrain Control Module (PCM), digital clock, electronically tuned radio, and other modules which may vary with the vehicle equipment. A vehicle that has not been operated for approximately twenty one days, may discharge the battery to an inadequate level. When a vehicle will not be used for twenty one days or more (stored), remove the IOD fuse from the Integrated Power Module (IPM). This will reduce battery discharging.
BatteryMOD
I like many of us was an early adopter of AGM, most of us by now will be AGM. It occurs to me that the safe μF we chose for the buttonMOD could be changed to give closer to 14.4V than the 14.1 I was getting. I went 13.9 to 14.1 it would be nice to have that extra .3V, it would make a hell of a difference on a big 80aH even over such a short charging time frame as 15 minutes.
I was thinking 22K Ω @ 1/2 watt would be a goodish guesstimate for keeping it under the 14.6[ish] although I'm sure it would be safe a little higher. I'll be happy if I can get to the extra .3's @ 14.4 * Tested .... smack on 14.4-6 winter and 14+ summer over a 6 month period steady across the REV range. This will better recover the winter loss more quickly. Of course in the summer the ALT output will be limited by the lower battery replenishment needs Well pleased !
Update : Changed the 22K Ω @ 1/2 watt for 33K Ω @ 1/2 watt and get a consistent 15+ summer and 14+ winter.
#6
04-12-2018, 10:53 AM
Great work Q, you must have Been up all night doing that.
However, I found from experience that the IOD fuse is not the best place to measure Ignition Off Draw. Page 3 of the following explains why: https://www.chryslerforum.com/forum/...-needed-28405/
However, I found from experience that the IOD fuse is not the best place to measure Ignition Off Draw. Page 3 of the following explains why: https://www.chryslerforum.com/forum/...-needed-28405/
#8
04-19-2018, 07:53 AM
The problem turned out to be a loose wire on the harness connected to the alternator... I guess it had been loose at first causing the intermittent light but came completely disconnected because the light became steady. Fortunately the shop that installed the alternator fixed the wire for no charge.
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