Of interest to those getting flat batteries.
#32
11-14-2013, 12:25 PM
If you are a bit short on electrical tackle, there is another way you might check the alternator for back-leak.
With engine off, undo the main output nut on the alternator, but don't take it off, so that the connector is well-loose. Then wiggle the connector pref. in the dark so you can see if there is even the tiniest sparking. This will indicate a back leak. Again, be careful with the spanner/wrench/box key that you don't short anything to metal-ground as you are undoing the nut. This is crude of course, but a current of only 50m/A plus will spark slightly, so you have at least identified the cause without the need for any special apparatus. Get back to me on this site if you have this prob.
Leedsman.
(I took my own advice on this point and checked this morning using the above procedure. I also had my Fluke digital voltmeter connected across the battery, There was no kind of sparking, and no disturbance registered on the meter, not even 0.01volt. The socket BTW used is 13mm.)
With engine off, undo the main output nut on the alternator, but don't take it off, so that the connector is well-loose. Then wiggle the connector pref. in the dark so you can see if there is even the tiniest sparking. This will indicate a back leak. Again, be careful with the spanner/wrench/box key that you don't short anything to metal-ground as you are undoing the nut. This is crude of course, but a current of only 50m/A plus will spark slightly, so you have at least identified the cause without the need for any special apparatus. Get back to me on this site if you have this prob.
Leedsman.
(I took my own advice on this point and checked this morning using the above procedure. I also had my Fluke digital voltmeter connected across the battery, There was no kind of sparking, and no disturbance registered on the meter, not even 0.01volt. The socket BTW used is 13mm.)
Last edited by Leedsman; 11-15-2013 at 05:23 AM. Reason: A conclusion.
#33
11-15-2013, 05:53 AM
While I'm in the mood for passing on sneaky dodges, here's another one:---
If you have a sensitive digital voltmeter/multimeter that will read down to 0.01volt (as most of them will) just connect it across the battery when doing the load testing and pulling fuses with engine off looking for unusual loads in terms of parasitic loads that shouldn't be there.
As soon as you relieve a parasitic load (e.g. by pulling a fuse) the meter will react INSTANTLY AND OBVIOUSLY by suddenly showing a rising voltage. This could never be seen on the old moving-coil analog meters. This effect is even more marked if you have the battery on float-charge at the time at 13.6volt as I have. Of course, as Quinteq has pointed out, the micro system has to be allowed to settle its duties and current draw over a quarter-hour or so, and there's to be no door opening etc. to disturb it.
Leedsman.
If you have a sensitive digital voltmeter/multimeter that will read down to 0.01volt (as most of them will) just connect it across the battery when doing the load testing and pulling fuses with engine off looking for unusual loads in terms of parasitic loads that shouldn't be there.
As soon as you relieve a parasitic load (e.g. by pulling a fuse) the meter will react INSTANTLY AND OBVIOUSLY by suddenly showing a rising voltage. This could never be seen on the old moving-coil analog meters. This effect is even more marked if you have the battery on float-charge at the time at 13.6volt as I have. Of course, as Quinteq has pointed out, the micro system has to be allowed to settle its duties and current draw over a quarter-hour or so, and there's to be no door opening etc. to disturb it.
Leedsman.
#34
11-16-2013, 01:42 PM
I don't have a multi-meter, but I removed the nut on the live from the alternator back to the battery and gave the wire a wiggle - couldn't see any sparking.
I'll see if I can borrow a meter and test it again.
I'll see if I can borrow a meter and test it again.
#35
11-22-2013, 10:04 AM
I gave up trying to find a current draw and took it to the local car electric specialists.
The AA have been out several times to rescue the wife/me when it's failed to start, and everytime they've said that the alternator is charging up ok and the battery is fine...........so diagnosis from the electric specialists............the battery is on its way out and not holding a charge when the alternator is not charging it.
The AA have been out several times to rescue the wife/me when it's failed to start, and everytime they've said that the alternator is charging up ok and the battery is fine...........so diagnosis from the electric specialists............the battery is on its way out and not holding a charge when the alternator is not charging it.
#36
11-22-2013, 01:14 PM
Quite so Pob, quite so. If it's been consistently undercharged for a year or two, it will have become sulphated with hard crystaline lead sulphate, reducing its capacity by a big margin. A %age of batteries can be restored but it takes weeks of trickle-charging to do it.
I keep my batteries now it's winter on constant float-charge. The main battery cost me £15 from a scrapyard/junkyard, and the second battery was the main battery before. This responded to long-term trickle charge well. I had to put it in the front passenger footwell as there was no-where else.
Now I can go anytime and start it with a good hi-rev. cranking at 0*C. Left it off the float for a week -- still the same. In fact when engine is warm, the cranking speed is about same as idle speed (800rpm on mine).
Leedsman.
Oh, nearly forgot. I'm coming up shortly with a simple device to look for improper current draw without having to disconnect the battery to measure parasitic currents or improper currents. It will only involve the fuse-board in the body module which is next the battery. Anyone who can solder will be able to make one. Parts should be available cheaply from Maplins -- I checked today. Won't be before Xmas though now.
And one other thing -- you can acquire those little plug-top power units that produce a regulated 13.5volt at a couple of amps. (I know because I have one).Put a cigar lighter plug on the end of the output wire (pin positive) and plug it into the left-hand cigar lighter socket. You might find the battery could restore of its own accord after a few weeks if you keep it on float charge permanently. No guarantees of course but what the hell? Nothing ventured, nothing gained. And you save 150 quid or so if it works....You just need off St. parking and a long extension wire to the motor from the house.
I keep my batteries now it's winter on constant float-charge. The main battery cost me £15 from a scrapyard/junkyard, and the second battery was the main battery before. This responded to long-term trickle charge well. I had to put it in the front passenger footwell as there was no-where else.
Now I can go anytime and start it with a good hi-rev. cranking at 0*C. Left it off the float for a week -- still the same. In fact when engine is warm, the cranking speed is about same as idle speed (800rpm on mine).
Leedsman.
Oh, nearly forgot. I'm coming up shortly with a simple device to look for improper current draw without having to disconnect the battery to measure parasitic currents or improper currents. It will only involve the fuse-board in the body module which is next the battery. Anyone who can solder will be able to make one. Parts should be available cheaply from Maplins -- I checked today. Won't be before Xmas though now.
And one other thing -- you can acquire those little plug-top power units that produce a regulated 13.5volt at a couple of amps. (I know because I have one).Put a cigar lighter plug on the end of the output wire (pin positive) and plug it into the left-hand cigar lighter socket. You might find the battery could restore of its own accord after a few weeks if you keep it on float charge permanently. No guarantees of course but what the hell? Nothing ventured, nothing gained. And you save 150 quid or so if it works....You just need off St. parking and a long extension wire to the motor from the house.
Last edited by Leedsman; 11-22-2013 at 01:32 PM. Reason: Forgot...
#37
11-24-2013, 02:53 PM
Been reading this with interest, ive also been on the edge of non starts if i dont wait for the glow plug light to go off.
Ive just lobbed the ends off the battery tray and fitted a larger battery which was installed on a Vivaro van, it turns over twice as fast now although it has been fully charged off the car first.
I will now run a few charges through the one that was fitted and see how it goes but suspect the constant undercharge will have me swapping out again.
Was thinking about a split charge system in the boot.
Ive just lobbed the ends off the battery tray and fitted a larger battery which was installed on a Vivaro van, it turns over twice as fast now although it has been fully charged off the car first.
I will now run a few charges through the one that was fitted and see how it goes but suspect the constant undercharge will have me swapping out again.
Was thinking about a split charge system in the boot.
#38
11-24-2013, 06:02 PM
HiYa VVVVVVVVVVVVVVm,
Like you I too just 'chonked' the battery tray and fitted a big Bosch, here's the pics of the bits I cut off. Others had success with other types this thread covers most of it. The recommended 640CCA is a joke for the UK winters on a 3 litre compression engine, it needs to be nearer 800CCA. For myself what the trade calls a Merc spec or £70 bog standard lead-acid 800CCA taxi battery is just what the doctor ordered unfortunately they wont fit in the little kiddie-tray on these cars.
Best of luck.
Like you I too just 'chonked' the battery tray and fitted a big Bosch, here's the pics of the bits I cut off. Others had success with other types this thread covers most of it. The recommended 640CCA is a joke for the UK winters on a 3 litre compression engine, it needs to be nearer 800CCA. For myself what the trade calls a Merc spec or £70 bog standard lead-acid 800CCA taxi battery is just what the doctor ordered unfortunately they wont fit in the little kiddie-tray on these cars.
Best of luck.
#39
11-26-2013, 05:51 AM
Pob
I am not sure on everyone else's voyager but on mine if hear the chimes when I open the door it means I have not turned the ignition key off properly. On my 2.5CRD 2003 the ignition barrel is worn and the key can be removed when I switch off the car at the lowest position on the ignition barrel, when actually you have to turn the key all the way back then up one notch to correctly turn ignition off.
The barrel has a marker around its circumference where the key should line up when exiting the car. If you can hear chimes when exiting the vehicle you have left the electrical system still on i.e the wipers and electric seats and other equipment will still have power this can cause a enormous drain.
This was the issue with my voyager. just my 2cents
I am not sure on everyone else's voyager but on mine if hear the chimes when I open the door it means I have not turned the ignition key off properly. On my 2.5CRD 2003 the ignition barrel is worn and the key can be removed when I switch off the car at the lowest position on the ignition barrel, when actually you have to turn the key all the way back then up one notch to correctly turn ignition off.
The barrel has a marker around its circumference where the key should line up when exiting the car. If you can hear chimes when exiting the vehicle you have left the electrical system still on i.e the wipers and electric seats and other equipment will still have power this can cause a enormous drain.
This was the issue with my voyager. just my 2cents
#40
11-26-2013, 08:00 AM
I'd say that is worth more than 2 cents; as Quinteq says, reporting these details can help a member who is a bit short of the readies and can't afford dealer prices.
"Why pay twice as much for the same thing you can get otherwise for half as much" -- old Fred's philosophy.
Maybe the lock's repairable; if you can find a washer with a hole just big enough to get the key in and out, but the right size to keep the barrel in situ, you could fit it over the lock barrel in some way. Either fine selftapping screws or epoxy resin glue might then hold it in place. Just a thought. Worth a try, costs nothing.
Leedsman.
"Why pay twice as much for the same thing you can get otherwise for half as much" -- old Fred's philosophy.
Maybe the lock's repairable; if you can find a washer with a hole just big enough to get the key in and out, but the right size to keep the barrel in situ, you could fit it over the lock barrel in some way. Either fine selftapping screws or epoxy resin glue might then hold it in place. Just a thought. Worth a try, costs nothing.
Leedsman.