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More front suspension noise

  #1  
Old 04-13-2012, 03:58 AM
pob
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Default More front suspension noise

Right, I have a UK 2004 CRD limited 2.8

The noise from the front drivers side clonk has been getting increasingly worse over the last few months.
When the car is on the ground I pull the top of the tyre and there is a very noticeable clonk that sounds like metal on metal. The noise cant be recreated on a side to side movement of the tyre.

Upon jacking the car up, taking the wheel off and taking the weight off the suspension I cant replicate the noise. I musn't be able to get enough leverage on the brake disc compared to the extra distance that the tyre gives.

The drop links and sway bars seem fine, but ....... the driveshaft can be moved in and out quite freely and there seems to be a clonking noise.

Any comments on what you all might think this is?
Inner or outer cv or both

Thanks for your help, MOT i in 8 weeks

pob
 
  #2  
Old 04-13-2012, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pob View Post
Right, I have a UK 2004 CRD limited 2.8

The noise from the front drivers side clonk has been getting increasingly worse over the last few months.
When the car is on the ground I pull the top of the tyre and there is a very noticeable clonk that sounds like metal on metal. The noise cant be recreated on a side to side movement of the tyre.

Upon jacking the car up, taking the wheel off and taking the weight off the suspension I cant replicate the noise. I musn't be able to get enough leverage on the brake disc compared to the extra distance that the tyre gives.

The drop links and sway bars seem fine, but ....... the driveshaft can be moved in and out quite freely and there seems to be a clonking noise.

Any comments on what you all might think this is?
Inner or outer cv or both

Thanks for your help, MOT i in 8 weeks

pob

How many miles/km? When does the clunk happen?

I had a pretty bad clunk sound that would happen over any small bump. Replacing the sway bar end links and bushings got rid of all of it. My van only had 90k miles on it at the time.
 
  #3  
Old 04-14-2012, 04:28 AM
pob
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96K on it.

I jacked the car up, took the wheel off and then used another jack to lift the hub up rather than having it hanging under its own weight.
The drop link doesn't have any play in it.

I know the drive shaft is supposed to move but its the only thing I can get to make any noise.

A mate looked at and drove it - he suspects the top shock mount.

The MOT is in 8 weeks so rather than changing every suspension component I think I'll put it through the MOT and for the sake of a few for a re-test I'll let them tell me what the offending component is.
 

Last edited by pob; 04-14-2012 at 06:53 AM.
  #4  
Old 04-14-2012, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by pob View Post
96K on it.

I jacked the car up, took the wheel off and then used another jack to lift the hub up rather than having it hanging under its own weight.
The drop link doesn't have any play in it.

I know the drive shaft is supposed to move but its the only thing I can get to make any noise.

A mate looked at and drove it - he suspects the top shock mount.

The MOT is in 8 weeks so rather than changing every suspension component I think I'll put it through the MOT and for the sake of a few for a re-test I'll let them tell me what the offending component is.
The end links won't have any visible play in them but the bushing inside wears out allowing it to clunk.

End links are relatively cheap and pretty easy to install. (Frame-mount bushings were a little tougher to install.)

I would start with the end links and see if that gets rid of it for you. 100k miles is about all you're going to get out of them.

I bought end links and frame-mount bushings for under $100 and even installing the bushings, it only took me about 2 hours. (Actually did them, the water pump, tensioner, and new belt in about 3.5 hours.)
 
  #5  
Old 04-14-2012, 09:40 AM
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Hi pob

I had the same clonking/knocking noise on the right front of my 2005 CRD Limited 2.8.

I replaced the stabilizer bar d-links, retainer bushes and drop links/bar link fasteners on both sides without any change in the knock. I then went to change the pivot bearing and upper mount on the top of the strut, but when I removed the covers and loosened the top nut, there was no play at all and the bearing was spinning just fine.

I checked the ball joint on the swing arm/control arm, but that had no play in it at all, and then when I hoisted the car on a drive-on type hoist, not the type that takes weight off the wheels, I eventually found the knock on the end mounting point of the lower swing arm where it fastens onto the chassis, just past the pivot bolt and nut that attaches the control arm to the subframe/cradle.

The bushing in there was warn and had the play in it causing the clonk/knock. This was not evident when the car was jacked up, but could be heard and felt very easily when the car was on its wheels and accessed from underneath.

The complete unit, with ball joint attached can be bought from a Chrysler dealer, but at a cost of around 400 quid, but I found the same part on the Eurocarparts website for much cheaper, I mean MUCH cheaper.

My apology for the website plug, I have no affiliation to this company.

It made more sense to buy the complete unit with ball joint pre-mounted and both front and rear bushings as I have heard stories of inferior ball joints from Korea and the Far East at around 40 quid, when they are available for sale (usually on the popular auction website) that do not last very long and are very time consuming to have to replace more than once if they fail prematurely with many issues to be careful of when replacing, like driveaxle spline damage and burring, not over extending the driveaxle inner CV joint, the facing of slits in the correct direction etcetera.

The bug in changing the control/swing arm was lowering the sub-frame/cradle out of the way, but since both arms have been replaced, the knock is now gone.

After the 4 hours it took to replace both sides, I will definitely be avoiding pot holes and speed bumps, taking extra care not to jolt the suspension as much as possible. I just hope the replacement control arms/swing arms are not inferior quality, but then the company I mentioned are quite reputable parts suppliers.

I hope this helps? Good luck.
 

Last edited by HellasHaggis; 04-14-2012 at 10:08 AM.
  #6  
Old 04-14-2012, 10:03 AM
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Default Lower control arm replacement

I found this on the Dodge Forum: shamelessly copy/pasted to here.

1999 Plymouth(Dodge) Grand Voyager control arm replacement.

LOWER CONTROL ARM

REMOVE

Raise vehicle on jack stands or centered on a frame contact type hoist. See Hoisting in the Lubrication and Maintenance section of manual, for the required lifting procedure to be used for this vehicle.

Remove wheel and tire assembly from the side of vehicle requiring service to the lower control arm.

Remove the wheel stop from the steering knuckle. When installing the pinch bolt when assembling the steering knuckle to the ball joint, the pinch bolt must be installed from the rear facing the front on the vehicle

Remove the nut and bolt clamping the steering knuckle to the ball joint stud NOTE: The attaching bolts for the cradle plate are of two different thread sizes. Nine of the bolts are a M-14 thread and one of the bolts is a M-12 thread. Refer to for the cradle plate attaching bolt locations.

Remove the 10 bolts attaching the cradle plate to the front suspension cradle. Then remove the cradle plate from the cradle CAUTION: Pulling steering knuckle out from vehicle after releasing from ball joint can separate inner C/V joint. See Driveshafts.

Using a pry bar, separate steering knuckle from ball joint stud Use caution when separating ball joint stud from steering knuckle, so ball joint seal does not get cut.

Loosen but do not remove the pivot bolt attaching the front bushing of the lower control arm to the front suspension cradle

Remove retainer attaching rear bushing of lower control arm to front suspension cradle CAUTION: Make location reference marks where the front suspension cradle is mounted against the front frame rails before loosening and lowering the cradle. This is required so the cradle can be re-installed in the design location to achieve proper front suspension alignment.

Loosen but not fully removing the 2 left side suspension cradle to frame rail attaching bolts NOTE: When removing the left lower control arm from the vehicle, the front suspension cradle needs to be lowered for the pivot bolt to clear the transaxle.

Lower the left front corner of the suspension cradle until pivot bolt will clear end of transaxle. Remove the pivot bolt and the lower control arm from the cradle

INSTALL

NOTE: If the left lower control arm is being installed on the vehicle the front suspension cradle needs to be lowered for the pivot bolt to clear the transaxle.

Position lower control arm assembly into front suspension cradle. If installing the left lower control arm, pry down on the left front corner of the suspension cradle until the pivot bolt clears the end of the transaxle Install pivot bolt attaching front bushing of lower control arm to front suspension cradle Do not tighten or torque pivot bolt at this time

Install retainer attaching rear bushing of lower control arm to front suspension cradle. When installing retainer, be sure raised rib on rear bushing is positioned in the groove on the retainer. Do not torque attaching bolts at this time. NOTE: If reference marks were not put on the frame rails prior to lowering the suspension cradle, Refer toFrame And Bumpers for the cradle positioning procedure.

Raise the front suspension cradle against the front frame rails. Align the cradle with the reference marks on the frame rails.

Tighten the 4 mounting bolts for the front suspension cradle to a torque of 163 Nm (120 ft. lbs.)

Install lower control arm ball joint stud into steering knuckle. Then install the bolt and nut, clamping the steering knuckle to the ball joint stud. Tighten the clamping bolt to a torque of 145 Nm (105 ft. lbs.)

Install the cradle plate on front suspension cradle and then install the 10 cradle plate to cradle attaching bolts. Tighten the 9 M-14 attaching bolts to a torque of 165 Nm ( ft. lbs.) Tighten the 1 M-12 attaching bolt to a torque of 108 Nm (80 ft. lbs.) CAUTION: When locating jack stands under lower control arm, do not place the jack stands under the ball joints

Position jack stands under the lower control arms as close to the ball joints as possible. Lower the vehicle onto the jack stands, until the jack stands are supporting the total weight of the vehicle

Tighten front lower control arm pivot bolt to a torque of 183 Nm (135 ft. lbs.) first, then tighten rear lower control arm bushing retainer attaching bolts to a torque of 68 Nm (50 ft. lbs.)

Install the wheel/tire assembly on the vehicle.

Install and tighten the wheel mounting stud nuts in proper sequence until all nuts are torqued to half specification. Then repeat the tightening sequence to the full specified torque of 135 Nm (100 ft. lbs.)

Remove jack stands and lower vehicle to the ground.
 
Attached Thumbnails More front suspension noise-cgv_cradle_plate.jpg  
  #7  
Old 04-19-2012, 10:37 AM
pob
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Thanks for the replies.
I put the car up on some ramps and lay underneath while my son pulled on the road wheel.
The noise was coming from higher up than the bottom arm.
 
  #8  
Old 05-04-2012, 05:35 AM
pob
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It was the top mount.
One more big jolt and the shaft that the top bolts to would have punched through.
The metal had severly fatigued and had split on one side.
The bearing had seized solid aswell.

I had to bring it round to a neighbour's who had air tools otherwise I'd still be swearing at it.

Track rod end done and now I need to sort out the rear hand brake as the mounting plates have dissintegrated and there's nothing for the shoes to fix to.
 
  #9  
Old 05-05-2012, 03:37 PM
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I have just changed the front arms on my 2003 grand voyager and it was easy nothing like as involved as the info from (weegie.??) hellas haggis.
All i did was loosen the bolts that clamp the rear bush mounting enough to pull out the old one, as for the one that fouls the gearbox i just jacked up the gearbox by an inch to get the bolt out.
Anyway my clunk is now gone.
i purchased two complete arms for around 65 each.(trade)
 
  #10  
Old 05-06-2012, 12:40 PM
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Happy to hear that you got it sorted.

Originally Posted by pob View Post
It was the top mount.
One more big jolt and the shaft that the top bolts to would have punched through.
The metal had severly fatigued and had split on one side.
The bearing had seized solid aswell.

I had to bring it round to a neighbour's who had air tools otherwise I'd still be swearing at it.

Track rod end done and now I need to sort out the rear hand brake as the mounting plates have dissintegrated and there's nothing for the shoes to fix to.
 
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