Intermittent Total Electrical Death
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Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 3
Intermittent Total Electrical Death
Hi, 2006 Touring Edition, 135,000 miles, owned it for 7 years, first post here.
Went to start the PT yesterday, starter (replaced a year or two ago) didn't want to engage. Figured maybe I left a door ajar overnight or something, repeated tries with the key finally got the engine cranked over and started.
Drove 60 miles to work. At the end of the day, I had a peek at the battery cables and noted the positive terminal was crapped up with fluffy white crystalline stuff. Removed both terminals, cleaned everything up with a wire brush, figured that was the end of my problem.
Went to start it and... nothing. Not just no cranking, no NOTHING. No interior lights, no dash lights, no horn, zilch. Like there wasn't even a battery under the hood.
Battery voltage reading 12.5 volts with a Fluke meter.
Futzed around with re-checking the terminals, fiddled with the key, repeatedly turning it to see if maybe there was a bad connection in the switch, finally noted a quick flash of blue light from the blue LED display on the USB charging port/voltmeter plugged into the cigarette lighter socket. Repeated attempts with twisting the key and suddenly everything lights up, the engine cranks over, and starts like nothing was ever wrong.
Drove 60 miles home, killed the ignition, removed the key, opened the door to make sure everything turned off. Popped the key back in, started right up like nobody's business.
So... any idea what's up with this? I understand that the ignition switch module on these is kind of flaky (in the past I've been driving along and suddenly had all of the dash lights go out, then EVERY warning light pops on, then everything goes back to normal). But would a bad ignition switch kill everything from the horn to the instrument lights? I'm really leery about driving this thing if there's a chance that it'll strand me without the chance of even jump starting it.
Thanks!
Bill
Went to start the PT yesterday, starter (replaced a year or two ago) didn't want to engage. Figured maybe I left a door ajar overnight or something, repeated tries with the key finally got the engine cranked over and started.
Drove 60 miles to work. At the end of the day, I had a peek at the battery cables and noted the positive terminal was crapped up with fluffy white crystalline stuff. Removed both terminals, cleaned everything up with a wire brush, figured that was the end of my problem.
Went to start it and... nothing. Not just no cranking, no NOTHING. No interior lights, no dash lights, no horn, zilch. Like there wasn't even a battery under the hood.
Battery voltage reading 12.5 volts with a Fluke meter.
Futzed around with re-checking the terminals, fiddled with the key, repeatedly turning it to see if maybe there was a bad connection in the switch, finally noted a quick flash of blue light from the blue LED display on the USB charging port/voltmeter plugged into the cigarette lighter socket. Repeated attempts with twisting the key and suddenly everything lights up, the engine cranks over, and starts like nothing was ever wrong.
Drove 60 miles home, killed the ignition, removed the key, opened the door to make sure everything turned off. Popped the key back in, started right up like nobody's business.
So... any idea what's up with this? I understand that the ignition switch module on these is kind of flaky (in the past I've been driving along and suddenly had all of the dash lights go out, then EVERY warning light pops on, then everything goes back to normal). But would a bad ignition switch kill everything from the horn to the instrument lights? I'm really leery about driving this thing if there's a chance that it'll strand me without the chance of even jump starting it.
Thanks!
Bill
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 589
From: Chicago, IL
Suggest removing and cleaning the 2 ground points on the driver side strut tower. These are known to corrode but still look good and tight. Check to be certain the engine grounds straps are also in goo condition.
Suggest having the battery and charging system tested. The battery may show a good voltage and still lack the capacity to function as needed.
Suggest having the battery and charging system tested. The battery may show a good voltage and still lack the capacity to function as needed.
Thread Starter
|
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 3
Suggest removing and cleaning the 2 ground points on the driver side strut tower. These are known to corrode but still look good and tight. Check to be certain the engine grounds straps are also in goo condition.
Suggest having the battery and charging system tested. The battery may show a good voltage and still lack the capacity to function as needed.
Suggest having the battery and charging system tested. The battery may show a good voltage and still lack the capacity to function as needed.
Thanks!
Thread Starter
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Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 3
Well, this went to hell.
Ignoring the good advice to have the battery and charging system checked (my thought was "The battery is only a few years old and the intermittent nature of the problem points to the ignition switch"), I replaced the ignition switch. Watched a few YouTube videos, followed the cautions about wrestling the switch out of the steering column, and managed to break off the tip of the Ignition Switch Actuator Pin anyway. Popped the broken-off tip into the new ignition switch, buttoned things up, and voila! Everything works just great!
Only now the ignition switch thinks the key is in the ignition all of the time, so the "Key in Ignition" alarm keeps ringing.
I look into replacing the Ignition Switch Actuator Pin. Cheap and easy on the first-generation PTs. The individual part isn't even available for my 2006. Have to replace the whole ignition lock tumbler and transfer pin body, a cast-metal piece that's accessed by removing everything that sits on top of it (lights and wiper switches). Requires some oddball 5-point Torx bits, essentially disassembling the steering column. About $100 worth of parts.
Decide to make an end-run; why not just install a big ol' relay on the negative battery cable? So, I get a relay meant to isolate a secondary battery (rated at 300 Amps continuous / 600 Amps intermittent duty) and install it to the inner fender next to the battery. Flipping a dash-mounted switch makes or breaks the ground cable connection between the battery and the frame. Everything works just great!
About the fourth time I drive the car after this modification it leaves me stranded in the PetsMart parking lot. Voltmeter in the lighter socket shows 8.8 volts. Getting a jump start, the PT fires right up, the voltmeter reads 14.4 volts, but the dash lights are kind of flickery. Drive across town, go to roll down a window, and the car dies. Get jump started again and get home.
I pull the battery and have it checked. It reads 12.5 volts but has no cranking power. Crap. That was likely the problem all along. Cough up $220 for a new battery. Everything works just great!
The next day it throws a check engine light in the Ace Hardware parking lot. I go to drive home, and it's stuck in second gear.
This is familiar. A few years back I had a similar problem. Driving along the freeway, check engine light comes on, transmission pops into in second gear and stays there. I stop and scratch my head and make some phone calls and then start the car and it works okay again. Manage to limp home 40 miles by letting it cool down every time the CEL comes on and it pops into second. YouTube university reveals this is due to blown transistor in the Transmission Control Module. [EDIT: It's a failing transistor in the TIPM. Problem outlined and the fix described from 11:25 to 14:30 mark in this video:
] Solve the problem by hacking into the wiring harness and installing a 12 volt relay that sends power to the appropriate solenoid on the transmission any time the ignition key is on. For the last three years or so, Everything works just great!
So I limp home in second, pull the relay I'd installed a few years back, and check it. It clicks on when I run 12 volts across it, reads zero ohms across the contacts, and after about 30 seconds starts to buzz and shows resistance that fluctuates wildly between 50 and 150 Ohms. Okay, that makes sense, the relay is dying and puts the transmission into second gear.
I pull out my OBD code reader and get P1603 (Internal PCM failure detected) and U0101 (transmission control module (TCM) is having trouble communicating with the rest of the car) codes. So I run a jumper across the socket for the relay, making the connection that the relay would make. Then I clear the codes. The car fires right up, but still stuck in second gear. Check engine light comes on, code reader shows P0700 (Transmission Control Module (TCM) is malfunctioning) and P0883 (TCM power input high).
At this point, I figure I've got a few choices:
1) Pull the 300 Amp relay (is disconnecting the ground causing voltage spikes that are frying the electronics?), return the ground cable to original, tear apart the steering column and replace the ignition lock tumbler and transfer pin body, remove the 12 volt relay patch job I did a couple of years ago, and replace the TCM, or
2) Just replace the TCM after removing the 12 volt relay patch job, or
3) Limp over to the Chry$ler dealership and have them do a deep diagno$tic instead of throwing parts and the problem, or
4) Call 1-877-CARS4KIDS
Appreciative of any suggestions or guidance!
Bill
Ignoring the good advice to have the battery and charging system checked (my thought was "The battery is only a few years old and the intermittent nature of the problem points to the ignition switch"), I replaced the ignition switch. Watched a few YouTube videos, followed the cautions about wrestling the switch out of the steering column, and managed to break off the tip of the Ignition Switch Actuator Pin anyway. Popped the broken-off tip into the new ignition switch, buttoned things up, and voila! Everything works just great!
Only now the ignition switch thinks the key is in the ignition all of the time, so the "Key in Ignition" alarm keeps ringing.
I look into replacing the Ignition Switch Actuator Pin. Cheap and easy on the first-generation PTs. The individual part isn't even available for my 2006. Have to replace the whole ignition lock tumbler and transfer pin body, a cast-metal piece that's accessed by removing everything that sits on top of it (lights and wiper switches). Requires some oddball 5-point Torx bits, essentially disassembling the steering column. About $100 worth of parts.
Decide to make an end-run; why not just install a big ol' relay on the negative battery cable? So, I get a relay meant to isolate a secondary battery (rated at 300 Amps continuous / 600 Amps intermittent duty) and install it to the inner fender next to the battery. Flipping a dash-mounted switch makes or breaks the ground cable connection between the battery and the frame. Everything works just great!
About the fourth time I drive the car after this modification it leaves me stranded in the PetsMart parking lot. Voltmeter in the lighter socket shows 8.8 volts. Getting a jump start, the PT fires right up, the voltmeter reads 14.4 volts, but the dash lights are kind of flickery. Drive across town, go to roll down a window, and the car dies. Get jump started again and get home.
I pull the battery and have it checked. It reads 12.5 volts but has no cranking power. Crap. That was likely the problem all along. Cough up $220 for a new battery. Everything works just great!
The next day it throws a check engine light in the Ace Hardware parking lot. I go to drive home, and it's stuck in second gear.
This is familiar. A few years back I had a similar problem. Driving along the freeway, check engine light comes on, transmission pops into in second gear and stays there. I stop and scratch my head and make some phone calls and then start the car and it works okay again. Manage to limp home 40 miles by letting it cool down every time the CEL comes on and it pops into second. YouTube university reveals this is due to blown transistor in the Transmission Control Module. [EDIT: It's a failing transistor in the TIPM. Problem outlined and the fix described from 11:25 to 14:30 mark in this video:
So I limp home in second, pull the relay I'd installed a few years back, and check it. It clicks on when I run 12 volts across it, reads zero ohms across the contacts, and after about 30 seconds starts to buzz and shows resistance that fluctuates wildly between 50 and 150 Ohms. Okay, that makes sense, the relay is dying and puts the transmission into second gear.
I pull out my OBD code reader and get P1603 (Internal PCM failure detected) and U0101 (transmission control module (TCM) is having trouble communicating with the rest of the car) codes. So I run a jumper across the socket for the relay, making the connection that the relay would make. Then I clear the codes. The car fires right up, but still stuck in second gear. Check engine light comes on, code reader shows P0700 (Transmission Control Module (TCM) is malfunctioning) and P0883 (TCM power input high).
At this point, I figure I've got a few choices:
1) Pull the 300 Amp relay (is disconnecting the ground causing voltage spikes that are frying the electronics?), return the ground cable to original, tear apart the steering column and replace the ignition lock tumbler and transfer pin body, remove the 12 volt relay patch job I did a couple of years ago, and replace the TCM, or
2) Just replace the TCM after removing the 12 volt relay patch job, or
3) Limp over to the Chry$ler dealership and have them do a deep diagno$tic instead of throwing parts and the problem, or
4) Call 1-877-CARS4KIDS
Appreciative of any suggestions or guidance!
Bill
Last edited by PT Snoozer; Nov 5, 2024 at 03:10 PM.
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