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Old 01-10-2013, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by vrc8883 View Post
Thank you QinteQ although the RS seems to be Petrol models only and the 2005 although the RG mentions the 2.8crd that is about it - all of the diagrams refer to the 2.5 which seems to have the ERG valve at the back of the engine and does not seems to have an Intake Throttle Valve, with associated circuitry at all. The code P0487 seems to identify this Throttle Valve which has the purpose of causing vacuum in the intake manifold that helps draw exhaust gas from the ERG circuit (when that valve opens. For reference, both valves in the 2007 Grand Voyager are in one casting just prior to the intake manifold with actuators/servos on or around the intake cam cover also at the front of the engine, near the oil dipstick.

I would like to find manuals for the 2007 model, I cant find any 2007 2.8crd on Techauthority.com and they say my VIN does not exist. The 2005 RG you kindly shared does not provide the help I need, especially when it comes to the Intake Throttle Valve. And I suspect ECU wiring may be different too. I actually wonder, as your car has a 2.8, if it has the EGR valve at the back or at the front as it might be a change that came along in later years as an "improvement"?

Ciao
Best of luck on finding a suitable manual, I've been looking for a year. Even money can't buy one. The American lads are brilliant at helping folks from other countries, unfortunately CRD's are like hens teeth in America so they can't help.

Read again the 3.2.2 ECM OPERATING MODES

The ECM uses lots of sensors in all 7 modes to adjust fuel quantity and
fuel injector timing. So on / startup / normal / overheat / limp / overspeed / after-run are all adjusted by the ECM.

NOTE : Taken from the 2005-RG-Diesel-Powertrain, best of luck !
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:01 AM
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Thank you QinteQ and thanks to TFB (Richard) too.

There is a lesson to be learned here I think. I just got back from a mechanic I trust in Solihull. we tested the Air Throttle Valve (OK) EGR Valve (OK) and visually saw them working. In fact the only thing we found that seemed wrong was Air Mass Meter voltage wich was 2.89 insters of 3.5 or so. Clearly, the Air Mass Meter was operating within its fault parameters, but it was giving bad information to sensors monitoring EGR and Throttle Valve. We took the Air Mass Sensor apart and cleaned it with an impressive BG product - it was very dirty! Since then I have driven the 50 or so miles home again without a MIL. So the lesson is do not take a MIL at face value. The Air Mass Sensor was withing MIL limits, but not good enough not to upset other sustems that were trying to match their performance to the information they were getting, which was in error.

At least I hope so!

It is worth saying that any engine parts you may need now or in the future should be bought at JNL Engineering in Camberley (01276 63278) ask for Shane. Cost of VM parts from them (they are the UK VM distributor) is about 60% less than your local Chrysler dealer. Equally, if you are looking for an intelligent mechanic, consider Matthew Wisemman at Wiseman Motors, Solihull. "It has been said an engineer is a man who can do for five shillings what any fool can do for a pound...."

Mike

Last edited by vrc8883; 01-11-2013 at 08:04 AM. Reason: error
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:37 AM
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Glad you got it sorted, and you are right that fault codes need to be interpreted and the live data to be viewed to get to the root cause of the problem.

Regards

Richard
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:43 AM
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Mine 2.8 CRD ('05) was running with MAF plug disconnected without any problem and with the MIL light off...
How is it possible?
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  #15  
Old 01-12-2013, 01:40 PM
tfb tfb is offline
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MIL bulb removed?

Most ECU's will use a default value for airflow based upon load, engine speed, manifold pressure etc should there be no reading from the MAF, but performance and fuel consumption won't be optimal.

Regards

Richard
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  #16  
Old 01-13-2013, 04:52 AM
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Are you serious joker2CV or just living up to your name? I really dont know anything about the layout of the 2.8 in 2005, but I would not be surprised to find that it is different from the 2007. I already wonder if the 2005 has a throttle air valve becuase there seems to be no mention of it in the data posted by QinteQ. Even so, how would you, or the ECU measure the amount of fuel to be added without a MAF? Yes, you would have throttle position and engine speed, but engine speed is surely a result rather than a measured parameter? To be honest I would have thought MAF to be rather critical. But, a few months ago I had a broken pipe from the exhaust manifold to the EGR cooler, so the EGR han nothing but air to work with - and no light.

As I think I tried to say before thse lights should not be considered Gospel truth. If I had had a code indicating the MAF it would have been a no-brainer, apparently, brains are still required!IN fact the light was caused because systems downstream from the MAF could not do what the MAF was suggesting they should and so they assumed they had a fault - they did not assume a fault with the information from the MAF because the MAF was reporting it was operating within limits (just). So the throttle valve assumed a defective control circuit and the EGR returned too much flow - wich there would have been if the MAF information was correct, and I could not figure out what was possibly wrong with those two functions and was ready to say the ECU was at fault until it was discovered that the MAF was outputting a low voltage.

There again, we had my engine running with the air pipe from the turbo disconnected so we could observe the airflow valve and EGR operation and it was running - without MAF or Turbo - I could not say how well though and I am sure it is running better with the inlet air re-connected, it even sounds better. So Richard is probebly right.

Mike

Last edited by vrc8883; 01-13-2013 at 05:02 AM.
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2013, 02:22 AM
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I'm serious, 2005 is different from 2007: no throttle valve and different EGR.
@TFB: the bulb is ok, not removed
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  #18  
Old 01-15-2013, 07:40 AM
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vrc8883,

- all of them
- the RG's
- the non CRD RS's
- the Diesel Powertrain 01
- the Diesel Powertrain 02

Hope this helps, that's why we are each of us supposed to be here for.
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  #19  
Old 01-16-2013, 09:00 AM
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Thank you QinteQ: I appreciate your support

Mike
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfb View Post
I've checked what info I have and I cant find any mention the 402. The only reference to the 402 code is on the later shape 2008 models.

link to the procedure for the P0487 here
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_2...XNuajBkeWlWVUE
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_2...G5GdGpvdHVlRmc

I'd suggest a 24hr subscription to techauthority.com if you want to check out the 402

Regards

Richard
Hi. Is there anyway to access the links above? Now it says page not found. Thanks so much!
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