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2005 T&C Touring Still not Starting

  #1  
Old 08-19-2018, 09:49 AM
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Default 2005 T&C Touring Still not Starting

Alright, made a few posts here and now I'm grasping at straws. The car hasn't started in 2 months. Mechanic said the engine wasn't getting spark and the electrical readings were abnormal. They said I needed a new ECU/PCM and they were getting a code P0688. I replaced the ECU/PCM with a preprogrammed unit. Nothing. Replaced the ignition coil pack, camshaft sensor, and crankshaft sensor at a suggestion from this forum. Nothing. Changed the relevant fuses in the engine fuse box, and checked the wiring for breaks and corrosion underneath. Nothing. New battery (the old one was failing), nothing. Doesn't appear to be a fuel pump issue. The engine will crank, but will not start. I don't see any damaged connectors or wires looking in to the engine, but it's hard to check them all. For that kind of system check I'd need to bring it back to another mechanic, though there aren't any in my area I've tried and trust. Since the car isn't starting, I'm basically at the mercy of wherever I choose to drop the car off for their diagnosis and repair price. That's a situation I want to avoid for all but my last resort (and I'm almost there).

One other thing I saw was that Chryslers in the next generation had an issue with the fuse box (TIPM) itself malfunctioning. I don't think the TIPM is a feature in the 2005 model, but I want to check just in case. Is there a possibility that the fuse box itself is messed up, or is my last resort to have a mechanic hunt around for a wiring problem? I wanted to have this for use in early May, but I definitely want it running by the end of the month, which is when it's inspection runs out. Literally all suggestions welcome.

Thank you,
 
  #2  
Old 08-29-2018, 09:59 AM
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I had a similar problem in a 2003. I replaced the fuel pump to no avail. I ended up buying a scope with cable-piercing probes and learned that the camshaft position sensor was bad. I had recently replaced it so this was a surprise. Once I replaced it, the car started right up.

One thing to check is the ASD relay. Upon turning ignition to "on", the car energizes the fuel pump (you should be able to hear it run momentarily) and some other items for a few seconds. After that, it waits for the engine speed to reach 50rpm (e.g. while cranking). If it doesn't see 50rpm, you'll never see spark or fuel pump operation.

In my case, the car never saw 50rpm because the camshaft position sensor had failed. I know you said the camshaft and crankshaft position sensors had been replaced. The shop should be able to confirm these sensors a working with a scope. But if that relay is bad, the system will never activate fuel/spark/etc.
 
  #3  
Old 08-29-2018, 12:34 PM
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Erikvcl, thank you for the insight! As far the the "mechanic" I brought it to, there was a lot they should have done. But now that I've fixed all the stuff they broke, I'm just going to pretend that trip never happened and I'm starting from scratch. I have checked the relays using a spare, but my primary suspicion now is a bad wire somewhere. I have a lot of mechanical experience with cars, but very little electrical work. I'm positive the camshaft position sensor is good, but there is always the possibility that there's a problem wire between it and the PCM. I checked the sensor itself (the original had proper resistance) and I checked it's connector, but not the wires inbetween. The fact that the coil pack won't put out spark with the rpm reading was new to me, so when I go digging back in there I'll be more thorough and try to follow the wires back. I have one of those cheap, $40 scopes, so I'll see where that takes me. The car will not be heading back to a shop until I've exhausted every lead.

Thanks again,

Ryan
 
  #4  
Old 08-29-2018, 12:43 PM
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For what it's worth, this is the scope I bought:

Amazon Amazon

In order to pierce the wires, I bought some nice wire piercing probes and the adapters to for the scope. I didn't see what I wanted at the auto parts store. See here:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/565-1296
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/565-6405
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/565-6728-0

In your case, it may very well may be a bad wire. Unless the ECU is fried, it's probably just not getting the signalling it needs. Oh yes, one other thing -- I checked the voltages going to the coil to make sure that they were correct. I suppose a bad coil could create this issue as well. I actually did replace the coil, but that turned out to be an unnecessary replacement for me as the root cause was something else. doh!
 
  #5  
Old 08-30-2018, 08:34 AM
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Oh and one more thing -- you may not even need to go through all that. If you have an OBDII reader, it may have already stored a code. After I diagnosed the problem, I went to clear the code and there was a code for "no input from camshaft position sensor". So I probably didn't need the scope. I didn't think to check the codes since the engine wouldn't run.
 
  #6  
Old 10-24-2018, 12:56 PM
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I always like to post when I find resolutions to issues, just in case someone in the future comes back looking for the same problem. The final issue was this: There was a grounding problem for the Automatic Shutdown Relay. The fuses were fine, the PCM was fine, and the wires were fine. The grounding problem was with the TIPM (ie: engine fuse box). I originally could not even find out if the '05 T&C had a TIPM or if it was just a regular fuse box. But apparently it did have an issue and replacing it got the car working again.
 
  #7  
Old 10-24-2018, 07:45 PM
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Thanks for posting the fix.

For the record your 2005 has an IPM (Integrated Power Module), the TIPM (Totally Integrated Power Module) did not appear in the vans until the 2008 model year.
 
  #8  
Old 10-25-2018, 04:07 AM
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Thank you for the clarification. I could not find info on that anywhere for some reason. But it's good to know.
 
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